Hey all
I was just wondering about mindfulness and the five skandhas/aggregates - if one is supposed to rid themselves of the 'self,' which includes the last of the aggregates - consciousness, why is it, then, that we are supposed to be mindful of ourselves? Surely that is one of the things we must rid ourselves of?
I know mindfulness is extremely important - I try to practise it all the time, but I was reading up about mindfulness and how to be more so, and realised that it could be related to the five skandhas...
Anyway, thank you for any help! I'm sorry that I always ask the silliest questions!!
Jasmine
Mindfulness in Buddhism
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Mindfulness in Buddhism
'He is able who thinks he is able.' - The Buddha
- retrofuturist
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Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Greetings Jasmine,
In Buddhism, consciousness has a slightly different meaning perhaps to what it tends to mean in every day language.
Extract from SN 22.57: Sattatthana Sutta
http://www.mahindarama.com/e-tipitaka/s ... n22-57.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As for what is to be observed, it is the impermanent nature of each of these. Are you always conscious of what you are tasting? Are you always conscious of what you are hearing? Are you always conscious of what you are thinking?..... What about when you're sleeping?
As for "not-self", how these things are to be perceived...?
MN 10: Satipatthana Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta,
Retro.
In Buddhism, consciousness has a slightly different meaning perhaps to what it tends to mean in every day language.
Extract from SN 22.57: Sattatthana Sutta
http://www.mahindarama.com/e-tipitaka/s ... n22-57.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So there is eye-consciouness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness and mind-consciousness... rather than some kind of broad-brush "consciousness" which is not connected to a particular object or sense-base.SN 22.57 wrote:And what is consciousness? These six bodies of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness.
As for what is to be observed, it is the impermanent nature of each of these. Are you always conscious of what you are tasting? Are you always conscious of what you are hearing? Are you always conscious of what you are thinking?..... What about when you're sleeping?
As for "not-self", how these things are to be perceived...?
If you've not yet done so, it might be worth trying to set aside a block of time to attend a residential meditation retreat in which you can learn vipassana meditation. In the meantime, however, this sutta should give you a good 'manual' for how to cultivate mindfulness.‘Friend, Sariputta, eye, eye-consciousness, and things cognizable by eye consciousness, are not me, I’m not in them, they are not self. Friend, Sariputta, ear, ear-consciousness, and things cognizable by ear -consciousness, are not me, I’m not in them, they are not self. Friend, Sariputta, nose, nose-consciousness, and things cognizable by nose-consciousness, are not me, I’m not in them, they are not self. Friend, Sariputta, tongue, tongue-consciousness, and things cognizable by tongue-consciousness, are not me, I’m not in them, they are not self. Friend, Sariputta, body, body-consciousness, and things cognizable by body-consciousness, are not me, I’m not in them, they are not self Friend, Sariputta, mind, mind-consciousness, and things cognizable by mind-consciousness, are not me, I’m not in them, they are not self.’
MN 10: Satipatthana Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Hi Jasmine. In line with retro's observations, what is key here- as we practice mindfulness over time- we become more aware of (gain deeper insight into) how the "self" is an illusion, the aggregates arise and pass away. So its not so much being mindful of "ourselves" or "getting rid of the self" as coming to recognize over time how the illusion of self is constructed and maintained.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Thank you both very much - your answers were deeply appreciated!
Hope you're both having a good day,
Metta
Jasmine
Hope you're both having a good day,
Metta
Jasmine
'He is able who thinks he is able.' - The Buddha
Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Retro,
Although the answer you give is interesting (in that you talk about consciousness as its spoken of in the suttas as "eye consciousness," etc.), I'm not sure it's correct to say that the way consciousness is used in the suttas is only sense-consciousness, and it's maybe it's not so clear that it's not some kind of "broad brush" consciousness.
Why do I say this? Because I remember a sutta where the Buddha gives a talk and he recites some verses. In the verses he praises homelessness. Those who heard the talk later ask Maha Kaccana to explain the verses. When he gets to the homelessness part, he says it refers to consciousness not having it's home in any of the four other khandas... So, depending on the meaning of this, it could mean that consciousness still arises with other khandas (i.e. cognizing perception, or sankharas, or feelings, or with one of the six sense bases), simply not attached to them though, or it could mean something different.
More connected with the original post, I think it's interesting that the Buddha teaches disenchantment with consciousness as well as with the other khandas. He doesn't say, "Abolish consciousness (I don't think)", but he talks about practicing for disenchantment with it. If one doesn't observe it, how can one grow dispassionate towards it...
maybe kind of like when you are in the water and a wave is coming and you get scared and think, "Oh no," but then it laps over you and it's really not that impressive...
If you don't get in the water you won't have the experience... It's interesting because I think it shows a lot, about determination and rest/calm.
Although the answer you give is interesting (in that you talk about consciousness as its spoken of in the suttas as "eye consciousness," etc.), I'm not sure it's correct to say that the way consciousness is used in the suttas is only sense-consciousness, and it's maybe it's not so clear that it's not some kind of "broad brush" consciousness.
Why do I say this? Because I remember a sutta where the Buddha gives a talk and he recites some verses. In the verses he praises homelessness. Those who heard the talk later ask Maha Kaccana to explain the verses. When he gets to the homelessness part, he says it refers to consciousness not having it's home in any of the four other khandas... So, depending on the meaning of this, it could mean that consciousness still arises with other khandas (i.e. cognizing perception, or sankharas, or feelings, or with one of the six sense bases), simply not attached to them though, or it could mean something different.
More connected with the original post, I think it's interesting that the Buddha teaches disenchantment with consciousness as well as with the other khandas. He doesn't say, "Abolish consciousness (I don't think)", but he talks about practicing for disenchantment with it. If one doesn't observe it, how can one grow dispassionate towards it...
maybe kind of like when you are in the water and a wave is coming and you get scared and think, "Oh no," but then it laps over you and it's really not that impressive...
If you don't get in the water you won't have the experience... It's interesting because I think it shows a lot, about determination and rest/calm.
- retrofuturist
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Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Greetings Altar,
I'd be happy to see the sutta, if you can find it.
Metta,
Retro.
I'd be happy to see the sutta, if you can find it.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Hi Retro,
Yea I found the sutta on page 859 of Bhikkhu Bodhi's SN, and here is the Thanissaro link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Yea I found the sutta on page 859 of Bhikkhu Bodhi's SN, and here is the Thanissaro link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Thanks Altar,
I like Ven. Maha Kaccana's expositions...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... =&gs_rfai=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el405.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta
Mike
I like Ven. Maha Kaccana's expositions...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe ... =&gs_rfai=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el405.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta
Mike
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Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Greetings Altar,
Metta,
Retro.
That sutta certainly speaks of the six-consciousnesses...altar wrote:Hi Retro,
Yea I found the sutta on page 859 of Bhikkhu Bodhi's SN, and here is the Thanissaro link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
The opposing "not dwelling at home" of the Tathagata may be implying some form of non-manifestative consciousness or "anidassana-vinnana"."The property of form, householder, is the home of consciousness. When consciousness is in bondage through passion to the property of form, it is said to be living at home. The property of feeling... perception... fabrication is the home of consciousness.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
Our mind and body, fell under the shadow of avijja, became viewed as self.thecharmedbaja wrote: I was just wondering about mindfulness and the five skandhas/aggregates - if one is supposed to rid themselves of the 'self,' which includes the last of the aggregates - consciousness, why is it, then, that we are supposed to be mindful of ourselves? Surely that is one of the things we must rid ourselves of?
To remove the shadow, we need to cast light on it, i.e. not just by being mindful, but by seeing them with knowledge, so that the truth will come out
Mindfulness stands as the foundation for right knowledge to arise
- christopher:::
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Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
char101 wrote:Our mind and body, fell under the shadow of avijja, became viewed as self.thecharmedbaja wrote: I was just wondering about mindfulness and the five skandhas/aggregates - if one is supposed to rid themselves of the 'self,' which includes the last of the aggregates - consciousness, why is it, then, that we are supposed to be mindful of ourselves? Surely that is one of the things we must rid ourselves of?
To remove the shadow, we need to cast light on it, i.e. not just by being mindful, but by seeing them with knowledge, so that the truth will come out
Mindfulness stands as the foundation for right knowledge to arise
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Re: Mindfulness in Buddhism
There is consciousness outside 6-class-consciousness, and it is too inconstant and stressful.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"In dependence on the intellect & ideas there arises intellect-consciousness. The intellect is inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise. Ideas are inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise. Thus this pair is both wavering & fluctuating — inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise.
"Intellect-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise. Whatever is the cause, the requisite condition, for the arising of intellect-consciousness, that is inconstant, changeable, of a nature to become otherwise. Having arisen in dependence on an inconstant factor, how could intellect-consciousness be constant?