Moderator: Mahavihara moderator
wouter_doorn wrote:as far as I understand citta have the characteristic of cognizing, of knowing. I (think) I understand the principle pf how the citta receive information from the environment, like when eye sees an object and the whole vithi starts. But what I do not understand is how the return path works. What I mean is, for example, when I hear a sound and my head turns and my eyes look at where the sound comes from. What is it that makes my head turn? how do the citta interact with the body? I am not talking about the place where mind and body interact (I have heard that that is a place in the heart muscle?) but more about the working of citta and cetasika in this process.
As to how the mind interacts with the body: you have it wrong.... they are not two things that interact only in a limited space, but are actually one thing. There is no mind without body, the body is only a lump of elements without mind... in the suttas it is said that consciouness is dependent upon materiality-and-mentality (body-and-nervous system), and materiality-and-mentality is dependent upon consciousness. If you take a bio mechanical view of things, it is clear that the nervous system that is responsible for processing input from the senses and controlling the body, is in fact a part of that very body.
wouter_doorn wrote:I thought mind was related to the heart-base? On page 144&145 of the translated by bikkhu bodhi it states:
"Heart-base: according to the pali commentators, the heart serves as the physical support for all cittas other than the two sets of fivefold sense consciousness, which take their respective sensitivites as their bases. In the canonical Abidhamma the heart-base is not expressly mentioned. The Patthana, the last book of the Abhidhamma Pitaka, simply speaks of "that matter in dependence on which the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur" (i,4). The Commentaries, however, subsequently specify "that matter" to be the heart-base, a cavity situated within the physical heart."
This is what I ment. Have you found this to be incorrect?
52. Saying, "Good, friend," the bhikkhus delighted and rejoiced in the Venerable Sariputta's words. Then they asked him a further question: "But, friend, might there be another way in which a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma?" — "There might be, friends.
53. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands mentality-materiality, the origin of mentality-materiality, the cessation of mentality-materiality, and the way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality, in that way he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma.
54. "And what is mentality-materiality, what is the origin of mentality-materiality, what is the cessation of mentality-materiality, what is the way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality? Feeling, perception, volition, contact and attention — these are called mentality. The four great elements and the material form derived from the four great elements — these are called materiality. So this mentality and this materiality are what is called mentality-materiality. With the arising of consciousness there is the arising of mentality-materiality. With the cessation of consciousness there is the cessation of mentality-materiality. The way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.
55. "When a noble disciple has thus understood mentality-materiality, the origin of mentality-materiality, the cessation of mentality-materiality, and the way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality... he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma."
retrofuturist wrote:[Which neither makes it inherently right or wrong - only that in this particular sub-forum, that is sufficiently authoritative in itself]
rowyourboat wrote:I think the location of the mind is mentioned as being in the heart and the head in the visuddhi (vimutti?) magga- as you can see I'm not sure. But emotions and thoughts seem to be felt in the heart and the head experientially -so more recently even though I dismissed it first, I feel there maybe some authenticity in this story.