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Vipassana - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Vipassana

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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altar
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Re: Vipassana

Postby altar » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:31 pm

I'm pretty sure the Buddha encouraged meditation, vipassana, and jhana. So if there was a meditation technique based on the four foundations of mindfulness, that led to insight, I don't see why he would discourage it (Obviously there can be specific cases, even a majority of the time at least in theory, where certain types of meditation would be less appropriate).
Then there is the sutta (I believe it is in Bhikkhu Bodhi's anthology, and therefore elsewhere, too) that talks of 4 ways his disciples progress: insight preceded by concentration, concentration preceded by insight, the two together, and the last I think is someone who after a while loses confusion regarding the dhamma.
Also, as for there not being mention of attaining stream entry in meditation, it's interesting, but there is mention of many techniques, or at least six or seven, that lead to the deathless (food, body, death, inconstancy in conditioned things, suffering in conditioned things, what else?...), suggesting that these contemplations can lead to stream-entry.
I'm not sure that Goenka is of the opinion that jhana is not fruitful, but I think that jhana is discouraged during his retreats (at least the "normal jhanas"). This might seem silly, strange, because the Buddha encouraged jhana. But I'm not sure it is silly or strange. The Buddha also encouraged metta. Yet if one's main meditation object is the body, it might make sense to tell oneself "Okay, don't focus on metta, now you're going to be mindful of the body." If metta arises during mindfulness of the body, okay, but still one stays mindful of the body, not switching to cultivation of metta. Maybe a person could do both, but many like to stay to one technique at a time. In the same way, a person might say, "Okay, don't focus on jhana, now you're going to just observe ("[just observing]" sensations being a common instruction in Goenka, no?)"
I mean, I don't know, but if a person went into a jhana during a Goenka retreat I don't think the take on it would be, "That's not the instructions," but the take might be, to just keeping being mindful... if a sensation crops up, it crops up...

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puthujjana
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Re: Vipassana

Postby puthujjana » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:32 pm

Hej Brizzy,

maybe you'll find this article interesting:

From Vipassana Hater to Vipassana Lover
http://theravadin.wordpress.com/2009/02 ... ana-lover/

:anjali:
"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Vipassana

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:59 pm

Greetings Brizzy,

Related topic...

How important is technique?
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3503

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:00 am


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:21 am


Freawaru
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Freawaru » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:14 am


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:00 am


Freawaru
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Vipassana

Postby Freawaru » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:34 am


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:07 pm


Freawaru
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Freawaru » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:31 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Alex123 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:57 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:13 am


Virgo
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Re: Vipassana

Postby Virgo » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:17 am

When your beard grows, do you tell each hair to grow?


Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:23 am


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BlackBird
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Re: Vipassana

Postby BlackBird » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:28 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:47 am


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BlackBird
Posts: 1925
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Vipassana

Postby BlackBird » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:47 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Alex123
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Vipassana

Postby Alex123 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:30 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Vipassana

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:43 pm

AN 4.94 PTS: A ii 93
Samadhi Sutta: Concentration (Tranquillity and Insight)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1998–2010
"Monks, these four types of individuals are to be found existing in the world. Which four?

"There is the case of the individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness (samatha), but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment (vipassana). Then there is the case of the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness. Then there is the case of the individual who has attained neither internal tranquillity of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment. And then there is the case of the individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"The individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, should approach an individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment and ask him: 'How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'Fabrications should be regarded in this way. Fabrications should be investigated in this way. Fabrications should be seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness, he should approach an individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained neither internal tranquillity of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, he should approach an individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated? How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way. Fabrications should be regarded in this way. Fabrications should be investigated in this way. Fabrications should be seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

"As for the individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, his duty is to make an effort in establishing ('tuning') those very same skillful qualities to a higher degree for the ending of the (mental) fermentations.

"These are four types of individuals to be found existing in the world."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Brizzy

Re: Vipassana

Postby Brizzy » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:32 am



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