Are you S.A.D.?

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alan
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Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:54 pm

There are some who can live without light; I'm not one of them. I suffer when the nights come early and the days grow short.
One way of dealing with this is to go live in the tropics, but if you can't, the next best thing is to buy a lamp which replicates the sun. Fullspectrumsolutions.com has some products which will help.

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:40 pm

Yes, buying a "daylight" lamp is a good idea.

I'm not suffering from SAD, but I too like summer better, mostly because of the energy costs winter brings in a land where you are mostly confined to the house, unless you enjoy freezing.

Did you know that you can also affect this affective disorder with food, colors and ethereal oils?

Sunlight increases the Serotonine level in the body. (Happiness hormone)

Sunlight and some food helps to increase the Serotonine production when it goes down in winter.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_foods_ra ... evelsheric


Colors: Orange and yellow cheer up.

Eating oranges and enjoying their "perfume" in an aroma lamp are a traditional remedy.

I crave oranges and chocolate in winter, :embarassed: so perhaps I am a little affected too.

Oh, and physical activity helps as well.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby catmoon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:34 pm

I've always had this trouble. I bought a large 4 tube DC fixture, but it didn't have any effect.

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:42 pm

Greetings Alan,

alan wrote:One way of dealing with this is to go live in the tropics, but if you can't, the next best thing is to buy a lamp which replicates the sun. Fullspectrumsolutions.com has some products which will help.


Have you bought anything from Fullspectrumsolutions.com before?

I tried to get work to replace the lights above my desk with full spectrum lights but Property wouldn't do it. Apparently I've got to go through Occupational Health & Safety about it... which reminds me, I should probably get around to doing that.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby alan » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:53 pm

Hi Retro.
Yes. I bought a Bluemax table lamp, not cheap at US$150, but the effect on my living space was so great I went and purchased another a few days later.
The best way for me to tell you how much I love these lamps would be to come to your home and do jumping jacks while singing their praises. But since I can't do that I will just say they are the best "home additions" anyone can possibly make.
For your workspace, I would say they are essential. When I'm in the States I have to look at negatives and prints and make judgements on their quality. It can be exacting work and these lights make it a breeze.

*You need 10,000 "Lumins" to get the positive effects of light therapy. Without it, no amount of essential oils will help.
*Take Vitamin D3.

Cheers,
Alan

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby meindzai » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:46 pm

I'm the opposite for some reason. I like dark days, rainy weather, etc. I find bright sunny days annoying, like somebody jumping in my bed and telling me I'm supposed to *do* something. lol Methinks I am a strange bird sometimes...

-M

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:29 pm

I'm sad that so many people look outside of the Buddha's teaching for the cause of suffering. Whether too much sunshine makes you sad, or not enough, sorrow arises dependent on craving and ignorance.

Its OK to be sad sometimes — its part of the human condition — but focus your efforts in the right way to remove the root causes.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:59 pm

Greetings bhante,

Even just keeping within the context of the Dhamma-Vinaya, the following sutta indicates that physiology cannot always be subdued or made an irrelevant concern through the removal of craving.

MN 144: Channovada Sutta (Advice to Venerable Channa.)
http://www.dhammaweb.net/Tipitaka/read.php?id=178

"Wasn’t the faultlessness of the bhikkhu Channa declared in your presence?" Yet, he used the knife.

Mental ailments may be subdued through the Dhamma, and even potentially some physiological things too, but it's a case of matching the right cure with the right disease.

No matter how established in the Dhamma a bhikkhu is, without the four requisites he will die. One of these requisites is medicines. For one's health, it's impossible to rely on the truth of the Dhamma alone and I think suggesting otherwise is potentially dangerous, lest anyone forego the necessary medical treatment out of faith in the Buddha.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:59 pm

Suitability of a dwelling place, food, clothing, and medicine are factors for succesful practice, but where does craving end if we keep projecting the causes of suffering onto external causes? If we live in high lattitudes, the winter nights are long. When things cannot be changed, look at your mood swings, and free yourself from dependency on external conditions. If you can only practise when conditions are ideal, you will do very little practice at all.

As a bhikkhu, sometimes one gets suitable requisites, and sometimes one does not. Sometimes one gets none at all. As a lay person, if you have enough money you can pick and choose, but if that just makes you more picky and choosy, how will suffering ever come to an end? If you don't have enough money — as is usually the case — then you're forever concerned about getting more money to satisfy all your wants (not just your needs). That is one way to go, but learning to be content with whatever you have is another route to consider. Which of those two paths is more likely to lead to the cessation of craving?
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:21 am

Greetings bhante,

Yes, I understand where you're coming from and agree that contentment with what is, and not craving for it to be otherwise is a very important thing.

In fact, we discussed several such Dhamma-based methods for combatting depression, seasonal affected disorder and such recently in this topic...

Dealing with Depression
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3825

This included the cultivation of metta, karuna... specific types of meditation, such as walking meditation, mindfulness of cravings and so on.

My concern here was simply that we don't take a one-sided view (either exclusively medicinal, or exclusively Dhamma-based) on issues that are too complicated to be exclusively addressed by one or the other.

For example, the sequence of "transcendental dependent origination" is this...

Faith (saddha)
Joy (pamojja)
Rapture (piti)
Tranquillity (passaddhi)
Happiness (sukha)
Concentration (samadhi)
Knowledge and vision of things as they are (yathabhutañanadassana)
Disenchantment (nibbida)
Dispassion (viraga)
Emancipation (vimutti)
Knowledge of destruction of the cankers (asavakkhaye ñana)


Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... 7.html#tda

If, for whatever reason (Dhammic or worldly)... joy, rapture, tranquillity and happiness are hard to come by, then getting to those later stages simply isn't going to happen in any meaningful way. Jumping straight to disenchantment and dispassion is hard to do properly for anyone, let alone someone experiencing some kind of depression or anxiety.

Again... it's a case of the right cure for the right ailment. There are hospitals and there are monestaries - the presence of one doesn't negate the need for the other.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby meindzai » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:24 am

Venerable, I absolutely see where you are coming from. I believe that one of the difficulties is that householders have a lot of decisions to make, whereas for the ordained many of the decision are made on account of conditions or the vinaya. When I go to a monastery I accept the conditions that are present and try to work within those conditions, which is where I see the truly liberating aspect of that kind of practice.

When I'm at home it's a matter of deciding what's important enough to change vs. which stuff I just have to deal with. Do I spend money eating healthy food so that I'll have more energy and be in a good mood? Or should I just eat the cheapest food I can find and do the "inner work" of dealing with my energy and moods as they come. Should I sleep 8 hours a night or should I sleep for 5 and meditate for 3? Should I stop taking my medication for my Acid Reflux or should I just deal with burning pain in my esophogus? (I might not have a job soon, so some of these decisions will be made for me).

I know Retro has said that he's been diagnosed as having Seasonal Affective Disorder, so he has to decide whether to ignore this and try to simply do inner work or whether he should perhaps try to effect his outside environment in a way that helps. I think it's worth at least thinking about - whether that would qualify as a medical requisite for somebody with S.A.D. is perhaps a matter of controversy.

-M

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:12 am

meindzai wrote:I know Retro has said that he's been diagnosed as having Seasonal Affective Disorder, so he has to decide whether to ignore this and try to simply do inner work or whether he should perhaps try to effect his outside environment in a way that helps. I think it's worth at least thinking about - whether that would qualify as a medical requisite for somebody with S.A.D. is perhaps a matter of controversy.


This is a good point.
Nearly two years ago I had to leave a job as a result of intense work-place bullying that resulted with the re-emergence of major depression. At the time, I knew I could deal with the depression on my own unaided, but I also knew that it would require nearly all of my time and my effort. As I had (and still have) a young family, a self-retreat wasn't feasible at that time and my untreated depression was effecting the quality of life for my family. I'm glad that I sought medical intervention to reduce the severity of symptoms to the point that I could function relatively normally and get on with some CBT, maintain my meditative practice and continue to serve my family on a day-to-day level. We should be pragmatic and get treatment if and when required so that we can continue to practice effectively for as long as possible during this life. If someone requires ligh-therapy or medication for treatment for their depression or seasonal affective disorder, then they should go for it. I am not aware of any sutta where the Buddha asked the sangha to forego medical treatment.
kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:37 am

Greetings Alan,

alan wrote:You need 10,000 "Lumins" to get the positive effects of light therapy. Without it, no amount of essential oils will help.


What about something like this?

briteLITE 6 energy light - HF3310
http://www.philips-store.com/servlet/Co ... 8714041389

I've had a quick chat with the Occupational Health & Safety people here at work and in theory, they seem happy to cover the cost of such a device, particularly if I can get a letter of recommendation from the doctor. (Fair enough too, if they steal the 9-5 sunlight hours from me!)

A Buddhist friend at work jokingly said I could put it behind my head and pretend I was enlightened.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Ben » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:18 am

Do it this way Retro, and they really will think you're enlightened!
fester01.jpg
fester01.jpg (10.89 KiB) Viewed 1411 times
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:50 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Suitability of a dwelling place, food, clothing, and medicine are factors for succesful practice, but where does craving end if we keep projecting the causes of suffering onto external causes? If we live in high lattitudes, the winter nights are long. When things cannot be changed, look at your mood swings, and free yourself from dependency on external conditions. If you can only practise when conditions are ideal, you will do very little practice at all.

As a bhikkhu, sometimes one gets suitable requisites, and sometimes one does not. Sometimes one gets none at all. As a lay person, if you have enough money you can pick and choose, but if that just makes you more picky and choosy, how will suffering ever come to an end? If you don't have enough money — as is usually the case — then you're forever concerned about getting more money to satisfy all your wants (not just your needs). That is one way to go, but learning to be content with whatever you have is another route to consider. Which of those two paths is more likely to lead to the cessation of craving?


Dear Bikkhu Pesala,

I find your thoughts very insightful.

I have been contemplating similar things lately, triggered by perhaps an unusual means, that you wouldn't approve of, but let me share it. I'm watching the German Big Brother series as my form of watching human behaviour.

If the people who live there don't win the matches they get confronted with, they will not receive luxurious food, but very simple food. Likewise, no cigarettes and alcohol.

Some are brought into sheer desperation by the lack of tasty food and can't stop wailing, and others keep a total equanimity.

The interesting thing is, that the one who is least affected by loss is the most respected by the audience...

hmmm....

While watching this I keep the Dhamma in mind...and can see how some humans get caught up in desire and clinging....and some don't.
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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:00 am

meindzai wrote:Should I stop taking my medication for my Acid Reflux or should I just deal with burning pain in my esophogus?


Dear Meindzai, hope you don't find...

Studies showed that acid production can be as effectively reduced by Chamomile tea as by acid blockers....2-3 cups a day for 6 weeks, let soak covered not longer than 5 minutes...drink slowly before meals...

A different diet can also bind acid, or reduce it's production...

I simply wish people would know...allopathic remedies have side-effects, and usually cure only symptoms, and not causes....

Sorry, had to say it. ;)
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby PeterB » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:03 am

I think we cant generalise about allopathic medicine Anna.
Some is very specific with few side effects for many subjects.
I would agree that some conditions like hyperacidity do not need allopathic medicine unless they are chronic and very painful with possible ulceration, in which case they will certainly need powerful antacids.
Conditions like Hiatus Hernia should also be investigated.
For generations it was assumed that all ulceration of the digestive tract was a result of stress. It has now been conclusively shown that it is bacterial in origin, and can be cured without surgery by a course of antibiotics administered together with acid blockers. The result is a complete cure. People are being cured of ulcers of many years standing.
When this was first announced in medical journals it was greeted with scepticism. The fact that ulcers are caused by bacteria is now universally accepted.
Allopathic medicine has its place.
Another natural remedy that can be effective for mild cases of hperacidity due to diet inbalance is Umeboshi Plum. They are Japanese pickled plums, and for many people a pinch of Umeboshi can relieve acidity by restoring the balance of the digestive tract.
But I digress.

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:56 am

PeterB wrote:I think we cant generalise about allopathic medicine Anna.
Some is very specific with few side effects for many subjects.
I would agree that some conditions like hyperacidity do not need allopathic medicine unless they are chronic and very painful with possible ulceration, in which case they will certainly need powerful antacids.
Conditions like Hiatus Hernia should also be investigated.
For generations it was assumed that all ulceration of the digestive tract was a result of stress. It has now been conclusively shown that it is bacterial in origin, and can be cured without surgery by a course of antibiotics administered together with acid blockers. The result is a complete cure. People are being cured of ulcers of many years standing.
When this was first announced in medical journals it was greeted with scepticism. The fact that ulcers are caused by bacteria is now universally accepted.
Allopathic medicine has its place.
Another natural remedy that can be effective for mild cases of hperacidity due to diet inbalance is Umeboshi Plum. They are Japanese pickled plums, and for many people a pinch of Umeboshi can relieve acidity by restoring the balance of the digestive tract.
.


:anjali: Agree.

...Ulcers....It has now been conclusively shown that it is bacterial in origin


Helicobacter pylori.

But not all with hyperacidity have it...

Healing earth would be another natural remedy...
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby meindzai » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:16 pm

Don't get me started Anna. Spent years with these types of "cures" including the ones you mentioned before I would even step into a doctor's office. Funny thing about them is that they don't always work.

-M

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Re: Are you S.A.D.?

Postby Annapurna » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:51 pm

Dear Meindzei, you sound a little bit angry, but I'm sure you are not, or are you?

I understand your frustration.

You say nothing worked out. It's true, sometimes things don't work. Health can be a very complex thing...

May I ask if you tried curing yourself with those methods?

Or did you consult somebody with a proper education in alternative or traditonal healing arts?

Hope I am not too curious...


Edit:

In my land, people would try the doctor first, btw. Only those who don't find help there, move on to people like me.

We get the hardest cases. The ones doctors give up...it's true...
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


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