Buddha is Maya

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby Dhammabodhi » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:25 pm

tiltbillings wrote:So far this is one dumb-assed thread. Maybe it might get better. . .



:rofl: :twothumbsup:

P.S: I think the OP took 'free-for-all' a bit too literally. ;)
-Samāhitam cittam yathābhutam pajānāti.

समाहितं चित्तं यथाभूतं पजानाती |

A concentrated mind sees things as they really are.

-Ujuko nāma so maggo, abhayā nāma sā disā.

उजुको नाम सो माग्गो, अभया नाम सा दिसा |

'Straight' is this path, fearlessness is its way.
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby bodom » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:50 pm

David N. Snyder wrote: Maya (Pali version not the Sanskrit one) is the name of Buddha's mother!


And Maya is the name of my daughter. :smile:

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:13 pm

bodom wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: Maya (Pali version not the Sanskrit one) is the name of Buddha's mother!


And Maya is the name of my daughter. :smile:

:anjali:


:twothumbsup: Cool.

And Deva is the name of my daughter.

:anjali:
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby bodom » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:22 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
bodom wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: Maya (Pali version not the Sanskrit one) is the name of Buddha's mother!


And Maya is the name of my daughter. :smile:

:anjali:


:twothumbsup: Cool.

And Deva is the name of my daughter.

:anjali:


Awesome name.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby cooran » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:25 pm

lovediction wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:Welcome to Dhamma Wheel!

When you use the term maya, are you referring to the sanskrit term for "illusion" ?

Your post sounds similar to some Mahayana teaching? You may also want to join:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/ (a Mahayana forum, associated with this site)


Thank you for the welcome.

Actually, i really meant Mara.

Therefore, Buddha is Mara, Mara--Buddha.

That said, in terms of Genius I sincerely believe Gotama ranks in the top three geniuses the world has ever seen. In terms of mind, he is number one.




Hello lovediction, all,

I think you may be confusing Maha Mogallana with the Buddha.

In one of his past lives, Maha Mogallana was Mara and was called Mara Dusi.

=========================================
Half a year before the Final Passing Away of the Awakened One, death separated the two friends for the last time. Sariputta died on the full-moon day of the month Kattika (October/November); it was at his birth place, in his parental home, far away from Moggallana. Just as their attainment of sainthood occurred at different places, they were also separated in death, though they had been so close to each other for a long time.
Soon after the death of Sariputta, Mara, the embodiment of evil and the Lord of Death, claimed Moggallana's mortal frame, by entering his bowels. He could not make him possessed by entering his head, because he had access only to the lowest Chakra. Moggallana, however, told him calmly to get out and away as he had well recognized him. Mara was very surprised that he had been found out so soon, and in his delusion he thought that even the Buddha would not have recognized him so quickly. But Moggallana read his thoughts and ordered him again to get away. Mara now escaped through Moggallana's mouth and stood at the hut's door post. Moggallana told him that he knew him not only from to-day but was aware of his karmic past and his descent. In that way, Moggallana manifested here three supernormal faculties: the Divine Eye, telepathy and recollection of past lives. It was only on this occasion, reported in Majjhima Nikaya No. 50, that Moggallana spoke of his recollection of his own distant past.
The following is the gist of what he told. The first Buddha appearing in our "fortunate aeon" (bhadda-kappa) with five Buddhas, was Kakusanda. He lived when the lifespan of man was 40,000 years and when the first darkening of the golden age became evident because of a king's lack of concern and the occurrence of the first theft. Because of that, man's vital energy became reduced to half. At that time, Moggallana was Mara, chief of demons, lord of the lower worlds, and his name was Mara Dusi. He had a sister by name of Kali whose son was to become the Mara of our age. Hence Moggallana's own nephew was now standing in front of him at the door post. While being the Mara of that distant time, Moggallana had attacked a chief disciple of the previous Buddha by taking possession of a boy and making him throw a potsherd at the holy disciple's head so that blood was flowing. When the Buddha Kakusandha saw this, he said: "Verily, Mara knew no moderation here" — because even in satanic actions there might be moderation. Under the glance of the Perfect One the astral body of Mara Dusi dissolved on the spot and reappeared in the deepest hell. Just a moment ago he had been the overlord of all the hellish worlds and now he himself was one of hell's victims. A moment ago he had been the greatest torturer and now he himself was undergoing one of those terrible torments. Such is the rapid change in samsaric situations. For many thousands of years Moggallana had to suffer in hell as a punishment for his frivolity towards a saint. Ten thousand years he had to spend alone in a hellish pool, having a human body and the head of a fish, just as Pieter Breughel had painted such beings in his pictures of the hells. Whenever two lances of his torturers crossed in his heart, he would know that a thousand years of his torment had passed. (Majjh. 50).
After this encounter with Mara which once more brought to his mind the terrors of Samsara from which he now was free forever, Moggallana felt that the time of his last existence was running out. Being a saint he saw no reason for making use of his ability to extend, by an act of will, his life span up to the end of this aeon, and he calmly allowed impermanence to take its lawful course.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/hecker/wheel263.html#ch8
===========================================

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby SDC » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:33 pm

.
.
I can't believe I'm taking the bait...


lovediction wrote:Gotama Buddha's Dhamma is a contradiction of his own teachings...


This sentence.............we need a "hand on the forehead" smilie.

"Gotama Buddha's Dhamma," aka his teachings, "is a contradiction of his own teachings?" So in other words, "His teachings are a contradiction of his teachings? Yes? Is that what you are saying? Are you suggesting that the Buddha had two simultaneous doctrines going at one time? Because if there was only one, there can be nothing else there to compare them to in order for there to be such a contradiction as the one that the above quote suggests.

Oh wait, here it is...

lovediction wrote:As a matter of fact Buddhas greatest idea was to expound a false dhamma to doubtful men.


So there is only one...a false one. So you were just trying to plainly state that "there are contradictions in the teachings"? Yes? No?

If yes, then this next quote is even worse.

lovediction wrote: Those that see through Buddha BUT UNDERSTAND him are enlightened people.


"But understand him"...what about him do they understand if his teachings are a contradiction? So he has something to offer? Are you saying that buried within the teachings are the true answers? If so, I'm sure many would agree, as the teachings are quite profound and take a mature, patient mind to understand fully.

All in all, I know you were just attempting to stir the pot. I sincerely hope that you have made yourself happy in the process. Maybe, down the line, you will take another, more calm look at the teachings...perhaps there is just a bit more to see.
Through many of samsara’s births I hasten seeking, finding not the builder of this house - pain is birth again, again. O builder of this house you’re seen, you shall not build a house again, all your beams have given away, rafters of the ridge decayed, mind to the unconditioned gone, exhaustion of craving has it reached.(Dhp - 153, 154)
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby meindzai » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:55 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Fede wrote:(Mothering Sunday in the UK... have a great one, all mothers!)


Happy Mothering Day ! ! !

How ironic, this thread was accidentally called "Buddha is Maya" when the OP meant to say "Buddha is Mara."

Maya (Pali version not the Sanskrit one) is the name of Buddha's mother!


Ah, a Freudian slip then. (When you mean to say one thing but you say a mother).

-M
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby meindzai » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:05 am

Kenshou wrote:...do I detect some buddha-dhatu/tathagatagarbha? My Mahayana senses are tingling.


lol. Yes, I think some failed attempt to be zen-like that ended up on a Theravada forum.

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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby ground » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:15 am

lovediction wrote:Gotama Buddha's Dhamma is a contradiction of his own teaching and he subjects man for 2,500 years into his sangha by his rule.

The teaching of a teacher may be inconsistent, i.e. contradictory, but a teacher cannot be a contradiction of his teaching. One may say that a teacher does not live up to his own teaching, however this does not necessarily entail that his teaching is inconsistent.
So if you mean the latter what is it that you perceive as indicating that he did not live up to his own teaching?

lovediction wrote:That is, Buddha's destiny to be king came true and he has done the most remarkable feat than any other king in history. He has ruled men past his own death over centuries without even being present.

Some followed his teachings and some did not. Some misunderstood his teachings and actually became enslaved by their own ideas about his teachings and some did not, but this happens in the context of all religions and philosophies. There was nobody who imposed anything on anybody.

lovediction wrote:As a matter of fact Buddhas greatest idea was to expound a false dhamma to doubtful men. Those that see through Buddha BUT UNDERSTAND him are enlightened people.

What is the intended meaning of this statement? Okay, teachings based on conventional speech are either right or wrong. But it is up to each individual to prove its validity or to disprove it for him-/herself. It cannot be proven to others since the teaching refers to unconventional phenomena that cannot be perceived like conventional phenomenon by means of the conventional senses that are shared by many.


lovediction wrote:Buddha plays Maya to those who forget they already are buddhas.

This implies that there has been the knowledge of "being buddha" before. But to "forget" does not seem to be compliant with "being buddha" which means "knowing", "seeing" or some even say "omniscient". But this "knowing", "seeing" or "being omniscient" is said not to cease after it arose before. Therefore those who "know that they are buddha" and afterwards forget this seem have fallen prey to delusion in the first place.

kind regards
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby Monkey Mind » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:55 am

All right. Random question... Does Mara ever manifest as a woman or female form? Or is Mara always male?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:58 am

Greetings,

Monkey Mind wrote:All right. Random question... Does Mara ever manifest as a woman or female form? Or is Mara always male?


Good question - and are "Mara's daughters" literally Mara's daughters?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:25 am

Monkey Mind wrote:All right. Random question... Does Mara ever manifest as a woman or female form? Or is Mara always male?


MN 115 The Discourse on Many Elements
http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... uka-e.html
It is impossible that a woman should be the King of Death. It is possible that a man should be the King of Death.

(King of Death = Mara in the Nanamoli/Bodhi translation).

Metta
Mike
Last edited by mikenz66 on Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby Monkey Mind » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:36 pm

Thanks, Mike. Random question, definative answer. :smile:

And those famous daughters?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Buddha is Maya

Postby plwk » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:52 pm

Thanks, Mike. Random question, definative answer. :smile:

And those famous daughters?

I think I know them... :jumping:
Māradhītā...Craving (taṇhā), Aversion (arati) and Passion (rāga)
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: Pañhamavagga
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