Provenance of the notion of momentariness in the Theravada

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Re: Provenance of the notion of momentariness in the Theravada

Postby vinasp » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:04 pm

Hi everyone,

Perhaps rowyourboat means SN 12.68 Kosambi Sutta [PTS: S ii 115]?

On one occasion Ven. Musila, Ven. Pavittha, Ven. Narada, and Ven. Ananda were staying in Kosambi at Ghosita's monastery.

Then Ven. Pavittha said to Ven. Musila, "Musila, my friend, putting aside conviction, putting aside preference, putting aside tradition, putting aside reasoning through analogies, putting aside an agreement through pondering views: Do you have truly personal knowledge that, 'From birth as a requisite condition come aging & death'?"

"Yes, Pavittha my friend. Putting aside conviction... preference... tradition... reasoning through analogies... an agreement through pondering views, I do have truly personal knowledge that, 'From birth as a requisite condition come aging & death.'"

This is repeated for all the other links - including ignorance.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: Provenance of the notion of momentariness in the Theravada

Postby Alex123 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:01 pm

pt1 wrote:Thanks tilt, RYB and all for your thoughts on this.

One related thing I'm wondering at the moment - regardless of whether a person is instructed in ultimate terms, or in conventional terms, or both, or he just practices as nathan suggests, etc, regardless, when the actual penetration occurs (i.e. from the time stages of insight start happening) - is it always in the same way? What I mean is - penetration always has to do with gaining insight into the ultimate domain - i.e. being aware of different dhammas arising and ceasing, right?. So, its not like if a person is instructed only in conventional terms, then his insight will also remain in the conventional domain only for example. Thanks.

Best wishes


Hello Pt1, all,

I believe that the 4NT are the heart of Dhamma. The escape from suffering (and future aggregates) is by removing ALL craving toward them.

Most of Craving is not a "theoretical problem", thus its answer is not in learning more theory. It involves very boring and hard work of mindfulness and wisdom that cuts down akusala.

In the suttas you will find many instances where only few lines of theory was enough for theory. Not only that, but often the those teachings were different, except for the fact that they have taught to counteract craving.

Even teachings "in detail" (what Netti recommends for us, blunt types) are not exactly PhD material and may be 1 or few more pages long.


The hardest thing is to go against the craving, including craving for mind-objects & ideas.


IMHO,


with metta,

Alex
I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care."
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Re: Provenance of the notion of momentariness in the Theravada

Postby pt1 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:01 am

Alex123 wrote:The hardest thing is to go against the craving, including craving for mind-objects & ideas.

Thanks Alex.

Best wishes
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Re: Provenance of the notion of momentariness in the Theravada

Postby ashkenn » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:46 pm

it does not matter whether the citta is perceived in split seconds or present moment. Citta can only arise one at a time. In order for one to see, listen to the sound from the computer and type the words, citta must be fast enough to experience all these objects.

The sutta quote that citta is very fast
AN i.10 :
“I consider, bhikkhus, that there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly mind comes and goes.”


Cheer
KC
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