I want to ordain..but....debt

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:13 pm

Annapurna wrote:Really? Here any pupil can tutor another.


In Thailand a foreigner must have a work permit to work, even voluntary work or just helping out in the family business.

It's easy to to get away with working illegally but if you get caught you'll be deported or have to pay a bribe, helping with his wifes business it's probably easier to not get caught than going to tutoring english students as you are more visible with the latter.

Annapurna wrote:Sure but you have to compete everywhwere, If you're good and work hard, you'll make it.

In that part of Thailand an internet cafe generally charges about 10 baht an hour, about 25c US. So I guess if he had 5 computers If he were lucky he'd make $10 per day. How long do you think it would take before he broke even and paid off the extra debt he'd have to go into to buy the computers?

Neither of the above solve his immediate problem which is to have enough money in his bank account so he can prove to the thai government he can support himself without working.
Last edited by Goofaholix on Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Whenever we feel that we are definitely right, so much so that we refuse to open up to anything or anybody else, right there we are wrong. It becomes wrong view. When suffering arises, where does it arise from? The cause is wrong view, the fruit of that being suffering. If it was right view it wouldn't cause suffering." - Ajahn Chah
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:17 pm

Fred, it occurred to me that as foreigners can't own land in Thailand your house will be in your wifes name. If the house is in her name then presumably the mortgage is too. So it's her debt, not yoyr debt.

It sounds like splitting hairs but if you are confident she will continue to pay it off out of your pension I think your concience is clear.

As far as Ordination is concerned from what I recall you get asked in pali if you are in debt and you reply in pali that you are not according to the formula.
"Whenever we feel that we are definitely right, so much so that we refuse to open up to anything or anybody else, right there we are wrong. It becomes wrong view. When suffering arises, where does it arise from? The cause is wrong view, the fruit of that being suffering. If it was right view it wouldn't cause suffering." - Ajahn Chah
"Remember you dont meditate to get anything, but to get rid of things. We do it, not with desire, but with letting go. If you want anything, you wont find it." - Ajahn Chah
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby bazzaman » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:49 am

.
Last edited by bazzaman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby salmon » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:05 am

Hi Fabian,

instead of seeking ordination, why don't you speak to the abbot of the temple in Fang where you are currently volunteering at? I believe they might be able to help you apply for a working(?) visa to continue to stay there. I know that there are options for the temples to apply for foreign teachers to teach in their temples, so if the temple you are volunteering at is established enough, getting a visa shouldn't be a problem.
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby Clueless Git » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:24 am

Goofaholix wrote:Fred, it occurred to me that as foreigners can't own land in Thailand your house will be in your wifes name. If the house is in her name then presumably the mortgage is too. So it's her debt, not yoyr debt.

It sounds like splitting hairs but if you are confident she will continue to pay it off out of your pension I think your concience is clear.

As far as Ordination is concerned from what I recall you get asked in pali if you are in debt and you reply in pali that you are not according to the formula.

That sounds sensible to me.

It would cost nowt to draft an agreement that switched the debt to another in return for that other receiving the pension money untill the debt is cleared.

If both the debt, and the asset with which to repay it, are transfered into a willing and trustworthy others name; Then I can see no way in which Fred would not be being totaly honest in saying that, prior to ordination, he has made arrangements that settle his debts in full.

Being debt free is, after all, only a matter of having sufficient guaranteed assets to offset ones guaranteed liabilities?
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby fabianfred » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:56 am

Just to bring this topic up to date..
I ordained as a novice on 9th May because I was led to believe by a monk from WPN that even novices who have the Suttee (monks passport) can get the one year R visa ..(unconfirmed as of this date...)
However the abbot of my temple wanted me to ordain as a monk before entering Pansa, especially as i was also teaching some temporary monks and he thought it better if I was a monk and not a novice. he said that as it was not my intention to escape my debt that it was OK.
Now i ordained on the 21st July... In August I will have to go to BKK for the letter to get an R visa....update later...
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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:59 am

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu
:anjali:

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Re: I want to ordain..but....debt

Postby Dhammakid » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:12 am

Sadhu! May your sincere practice bear great fruit now and later.

Every time someone on DW ordains, I gain a bit more inspiration to do the same sometime later in life.

:anjali:
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