Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

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Sönam
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by Sönam »

PeterB wrote: ...

My own personal view is that Tenzing Gyatso's view of the Vissudhimagga should not be rejected out of hand. It is as interesting as that of any intelligent person who has pondered the points it makes. No more, no less.
... with no possibility thant Tenzin Gyatso could be more than a "intelligent person" ?

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by PeterB »

Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".
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bodom
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by bodom »

Ben wrote:I was just interested in the provenance of the article and the circumstances of its origin.
This is actually the foreword written by the DL for the 1999 first edition Pariyatti copy of the Vism. I double checked and it is in my copy.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by alan »

I'm going to admit right here that Vissudhimagga baffles me.
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by tiltbillings »

Sönam wrote:hello tiltbillings, ... if vajrayana teachings are so "ignorant" why to be so irritated ?

may you found happiness and appeasement !
I understand that English is not your primary language. I did not say Vajrayana teachings are ignorant. I said that Wallace's approach was grossly sectarian, essentially claiming that the Theravada, especially the vipassana tradition, did not get it right and that the vipassana tradition distorts the Dhamma.

While there is sufficient reason to criticise the Vajrayana, I did not do so; I criticized Wallace's sectarianism, which seriously distorts what he is supposedly criticizing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Ben
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by Ben »

bodom wrote:
Ben wrote:I was just interested in the provenance of the article and the circumstances of its origin.
This is actually the foreword written by the DL for the 1999 first edition Pariyatti copy of the Vism. I double checked and it is in my copy.

:anjali:
Hi Bodom
I suspected it was a forward but its certainly not present in my earlier edition.
Thanks for checking it out!
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by cooran »

Hello Sonam,

Just wanted you to know that views expressed in this thread are the opinions of the writer of each post, not of all members of Dhamma Wheel or of very many Theravadins.

I have deep respect for the Dalai Lama, and have attended two Retreats with him when we have been fortunate enough for him to visit Australia.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by tiltbillings »

cooran wrote:Hello Sonam,

Just wanted you to know that views expressed in this thread are the opinions of the writer of each post, not of all members of Dhamma Wheel or of very many Theravadins.

I have deep respect for the Dalai Lama, and have attended two Retreats with him when we have been fortunate enough for him to visit Australia.

with metta
Chris
I do not think anyone in this thread has stated a lack of respect for the Dalai Lama.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by Virgo »

PeterB wrote:Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".
What is it that baffles you about the VsM?

Kevin
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tiltbillings
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by tiltbillings »

Virgo wrote:
PeterB wrote:Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".
What is it that baffles you about the VsM?

Kevin
I think you might mean this msg by Alan: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 703#p58703" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by Virgo »

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:
PeterB wrote:Certainly with no likelihood of a Theravadin recognition of him as an embodiment of " Avalokiteshvara".
What is it that baffles you about the VsM?

Kevin
I think you might mean this msg by Alan: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 703#p58703" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That is the statement I had meant to address. Thank you Tilt.

Alan wrote: "I'm going to admit right here that Visuddhimagga baffles me."

What is it that baffles you about the visuddhimagga, Alan?

Kevin
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bodom
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by bodom »

I would venture to say the visuddhimagga is a little intimidating and baffling to most at first. I know it was for me when I first picked it up. It is basically the entire tipitaka condensed between two covers. There is alot to take in and digest.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by jcsuperstar »

i started to read it on a retreat two years ago, i never got to the meditation part... :embarassed:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by Ben »

Hi jc
jcsuperstar wrote:i started to read it on a retreat two years ago, i never got to the meditation part... :embarassed:
I started re-reading it again in preparation for my last retreat in December last year. Particularly the section on anapana-sati (in concentration) but also some of the chapters in the wisdom section. Reading the anapana section over and over again over a number of years has been an invaluable aid to my practice.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Sönam
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Re: Dalai Lama's opinion of Vissudhimagga

Post by Sönam »

tiltbillings wrote:
Sönam wrote:hello tiltbillings, ... if vajrayana teachings are so "ignorant" why to be so irritated ?

may you found happiness and appeasement !
I understand that English is not your primary language. I did not say Vajrayana teachings are ignorant. I said that Wallace's approach was grossly sectarian, essentially claiming that the Theravada, especially the vipassana tradition, did not get it right and that the vipassana tradition distorts the Dhamma.

While there is sufficient reason to criticise the Vajrayana, I did not do so; I criticized Wallace's sectarianism, which seriously distorts what he is supposedly criticizing.
ok, so I apologize for not being "immediate" with english !

Sönam
no hope ... no fear
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