Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

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Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:13 pm

where in the canon does ananda give the 8 conditions for his acceptance to be the Buddhas personal attendant?

I can find the conditions but no reference to their source!

http://www.metta.lk/pali-utils/Pali-Pro ... ananda.htm
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby gavesako » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:00 pm

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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby bodom » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:40 pm



I already went through it. It does not give the source. In fact I have not been able to locate the source anywhere.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:51 pm

It is somewhat puzzling why the source is hard to find.
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby bodom » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:03 am

Manapa wrote:It is somewhat puzzling why the source is hard to find.


It really is. I have quite a few texts which speak of the conditions but give no sources. Maybe it is in the Vinaya or from a later commentary? I couldve sworn it was in the sutta pitaka. Weird.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:17 am

bodom wrote:
Manapa wrote:It is somewhat puzzling why the source is hard to find.


It really is. I have quite a few texts which speak of the conditions but give no sources. Maybe it is in the Vinaya or from a later commentary? I couldve sworn it was in the sutta pitaka. Weird.

:anjali:


I have been through all the ones in the propper name section on access to insight, and done a search through some of my PDF's and nothing :(

unfortunately I don't have any Vinaya text other than commentary type ones, which focus on the rules, so cant check them.
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby PeterB » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:25 am

Whatever the source, Ananda is for me one of the great inspiring figures.
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:08 am

Manapa wrote:where in the canon does ananda give the 8 conditions for his acceptance to be the Buddhas personal attendant?

I can find the conditions but no reference to their source!

http://www.metta.lk/pali-utils/Pali-Pro ... ananda.htm


The story can be found here, in the commentary on the DN, DA ii 418-421, Mahāvaggaṭṭhakathā, 1. Mahāpadānasuttavaṇṇanā, which deals with the issue of the Buddha's attendent(s):

Upaṭṭhākaparicchedavaṇṇanā

11. Upaṭṭhākaparicchede pana ānandoti nibaddhupaṭṭhākabhāvaṃ sandhāya vuttaṃ. Bhagavato hi paṭhamabodhiyaṃ anibaddhā upaṭṭhākā ahesuṃ. Ekadā nāgasamālo pattacīvaraṃ gahetvā vicari, ekadā nāgito, ekadā upavāno, ekadā sunakkhatto, ekadā cundo samaṇuddeso, ekadā sāgato, ekadā meghiyo. Tattha ekadā bhagavā nāgasamālattherena saddhiṃ addhānamaggapaṭipanno dvedhāpathaṃ patto. Thero maggā okkamma – ‘‘bhagavā, ahaṃ iminā maggena gacchāmī’’ti āha. Atha naṃ bhagavā – ‘‘ehi bhikkhu, iminā maggena gacchāmā’’ti āha. So – ‘‘handa, bhagavā, tumhākaṃ pattacīvaraṃ gaṇhatha, ahaṃ iminā maggena gacchāmī’’ti vatvā pattacīvaraṃ chamāyaṃ ṭhapetuṃ āraddho. Atha naṃ bhagavā – ‘‘āhara, bhikkhū’’ti vatvā pattacīvaraṃ gahetvā gato. Tassapi bhikkhuno itarena maggena gacchato corā pattacīvarañceva hariṃsu, sīsañca bhindiṃsu. So – ‘‘bhagavā idāni me paṭisaraṇaṃ, na añño’’ti cintetvā lohitena gaḷitena bhagavato santikaṃ agamāsi. ‘‘Kimidaṃ bhikkhū’’ti ca vutte taṃ pavattiṃ ārocesi. Atha naṃ bhagavā – ‘‘mā cintayi, bhikkhu, etaṃyeva te kāraṇaṃ sallakkhetvā nivārayimhā’’ti vatvā naṃ samassāsesi.

Ekadā pana bhagavā meghiyattherena saddhiṃ pācīnavaṃsamigadāye jantugāmaṃ agamāsi. Tatrāpi meghiyo jantugāme piṇḍāya caritvā nadītīre pāsādikaṃ ambavanaṃ disvā – ‘‘bhagavā, tumhākaṃ pattacīvaraṃ gaṇhatha, ahaṃ tasmiṃ ambavane samaṇadhammaṃ karomī’’ti vatvā bhagavatā tikkhattuṃ nivāriyamānopi gantvā akusalavitakkehi upadduto anvāsatto (a. ni. 9.3; udāna paricchedo 31 daṭṭhabbo). Paccāgantvā taṃ pavattiṃ ārocesi. Tampi bhagavā – ‘‘idameva te kāraṇaṃ sallakkhetvā nivārayimhā’’ti vatvā anupubbena sāvatthiṃ agamāsi. Tattha gandhakuṭipariveṇe paññattavarabuddhāsane nisinno bhikkhusaṅghaparivuto bhikkhū āmantesi – ‘‘bhikkhave, idānimhi mahallako, ‘ekacce bhikkhū iminā maggena gacchāmā’ti vutte aññena gacchanti, ekacce mayhaṃ pattacīvaraṃ nikkhipanti, mayhaṃ nibaddhupaṭṭhākaṃ ekaṃ bhikkhuṃ jānāthā’’ti. Bhikkhūnaṃ dhammasaṃvego udapādi. Athāyasmā sāriputto uṭṭhāyāsanā bhagavantaṃ vanditvā – ‘‘ahaṃ, bhante, tumheyeva patthayamāno satasahassakappādhikaṃ asaṅkhyeyyaṃ pāramiyo pūrayiṃ, nanu mādiso mahāpañño upaṭṭhāko nāma vaṭṭati, ahaṃ upaṭṭhahissāmī’’ti āha. Taṃ bhagavā – ‘‘alaṃ sāriputta, yassaṃ disāyaṃ tvaṃ viharasi, asuññāyeva me sā disā, tava ovādo buddhānaṃ ovādasadiso, na me tayā upaṭṭhākakiccaṃ atthī’’ti paṭikkhipi. Etenevupāyena mahāmoggallānaṃ ādiṃ katvā asītimahāsāvakā uṭṭhahiṃsu. Te sabbepi bhagavā paṭikkhipi.

Ānandatthero pana tuṇhīyeva nisīdi. Atha naṃ bhikkhū evamāhaṃsu – ‘‘āvuso, ānanda, bhikkhusaṅgho upaṭṭhākaṭṭhānaṃ yācati, tvampi yācāhī’’ti. So āha – ‘‘yācitvā laddhupaṭṭhānaṃ nāma āvuso kīdisaṃ hoti, kiṃ maṃ satthā na passati, sace rocissati, ānando maṃ upaṭṭhātūti vakkhatī’’ti. Atha bhagavā – ‘‘na, bhikkhave, ānando aññena ussāhetabbo, sayameva jānitvā maṃ upaṭṭhahissatī’’ti āha. Tato bhikkhū – ‘‘uṭṭhehi, āvuso ānanda, uṭṭhehi āvuso ānanda, dasabalaṃ upaṭṭhākaṭṭhānaṃ yācāhī’’ti āhaṃsu. Thero uṭṭhahitvā cattāro paṭikkhepe, catasso ca āyācanāti aṭṭha vare yāci.

Cattāro paṭikkhepā nāma‘‘sace me, bhante, bhagavā attanā laddhaṃ paṇītaṃ cīvaraṃ na dassati, piṇḍapātaṃ na dassati, ekagandhakuṭiyaṃ vasituṃ na dassati, nimantanaṃ gahetvā na gamissati, evāhaṃ bhagavantaṃ upaṭṭhahissāmī’’ti vatvā – ‘‘kiṃ panettha, ānanda, ādīnavaṃ passasī’’ti vutte – ‘‘sacāhaṃ, bhante, imāni vatthūni labhissāmi, bhavissanti vattāro – ‘ānando dasabalena laddhaṃ paṇītaṃ cīvaraṃ paribhuñjati, piṇḍapātaṃ paribhuñjati, ekagandhakuṭiyaṃ vasati, ekato nimantanaṃ gacchati, etaṃ lābhaṃ labhanto tathāgataṃ upaṭṭhāti, ko evaṃ upaṭṭhahato bhāro’ti’’ ime cattāro paṭikkhepe yāci.

Catasso āyācanā nāma‘‘sace, bhante, bhagavā mayā gahitanimantanaṃ gamissati, sacāhaṃ tiroraṭṭhā tirojanapadā bhagavantaṃ daṭṭhuṃ āgataṃ parisaṃ āgatakkhaṇe eva bhagavantaṃ dassetuṃ lacchāmi, yadā me kaṅkhā uppajjati, tasmiṃyeva khaṇe bhagavantaṃ upasaṅkamituṃ lacchāmi, yaṃ bhagavā mayhaṃ parammukhā dhammaṃ deseti, taṃ āgantvā mayhaṃ kathessati, evāhaṃ bhagavantaṃ upaṭṭhahissāmī’’ti vatvā – ‘‘kaṃ panettha, ānanda, ānisaṃsaṃ passasī’’ti vutte – ‘‘idha, bhante, saddhā kulaputtā bhagavato okāsaṃ alabhantā maṃ evaṃ vadanti – ‘sve, bhante ānanda, bhagavatā saddhiṃ amhākaṃ ghare bhikkhaṃ gaṇheyyāthā’ti, sace bhante bhagavā tattha na gamissati, icchitakkhaṇeyeva parisaṃ dassetuṃ, kaṅkhañca vinodetuṃ okāsaṃ na lacchāmi, bhavissanti vattāro – ‘kiṃ ānando dasabalaṃ upaṭṭhāti, ettakampissa anuggahaṃ bhagavā na karotī’ti. Bhagavato ca parammukhā maṃ pucchissanti – ‘ayaṃ, āvuso ānanda, gāthā, idaṃ suttaṃ, idaṃ jātakaṃ, kattha desita’nti. Sacāhaṃ taṃ na sampādayissāmi, bhavissanti vattāro – ‘ettakampi, āvuso, na jānāsi, kasmā tvaṃ chāyā viya bhagavantaṃ avijahanto dīgharattaṃ vicarasī’ti. Tenāhaṃ parammukhā desitassapi dhammassa puna kathanaṃ icchāmī’’ti imā catasso āyācanā yāci. Bhagavāpissa adāsi.

Evaṃ ime aṭṭha vare gahetvā nibaddhupaṭṭhāko ahosi. Tasseva ṭhānantarassatthāya kappasatasahassaṃ pūritānaṃ pāramīnaṃ phalaṃ pāpuṇīti imassa nibaddhupaṭṭhākabhāvaṃ sandhāya – ‘‘mayhaṃ, bhikkhave, etarahi ānando bhikkhu upaṭṭhāko aggupaṭṭhāko’’ti āha. Ayaṃ upaṭṭhākaparicchedo nāma.


The same information can be found at AA i 294, and it seems to be practically verbatim. And in a modified form at KA, 308, Apadāna-aṭṭhakathā, 3-10. Ānandattheraapadānavaṇṇanā. This is the apadāna for the Venerable himself.

:anjali:
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:56 pm

PeterB wrote:Whatever the source, Ananda is for me one of the great inspiring figures.


Although I do agree, He is a figure I rarely think about in contrast to a couple of the others, but I was thinking the other day, if Theravada had an equivilent to saints, or a panthion like the Greeks, or even the Norse, only comprising of Arahants, Ananda would probably be the most diverse of all the figures with what he is associated with.
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Re: Ananda becomming the Buddhas personal attendant

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:01 pm

Hi Bhante,
Do you have a Big 'SQ' on your robes (stands for supper quoter) :tongue:

Paññāsikhara wrote:
Manapa wrote:where in the canon does ananda give the 8 conditions for his acceptance to be the Buddhas personal attendant?

I can find the conditions but no reference to their source!

http://www.metta.lk/pali-utils/Pali-Pro ... ananda.htm


The story can be found here, in the commentary on the DN, DA ii 418-421, Mahāvaggaṭṭhakathā, 1. Mahāpadānasuttavaṇṇanā, which deals with the issue of the Buddha's attendent(s):

Upaṭṭhākaparicchedavaṇṇanā

11. Upaṭṭhākaparicchede pana ānandoti nibaddhupaṭṭhākabhāvaṃ sandhāya vuttaṃ. Bhagavato hi paṭhamabodhiyaṃ anibaddhā upaṭṭhākā ahesuṃ. Ekadā nāgasamālo pattacīvaraṃ gahetvā vicari, ekadā nāgito, ekadā upavāno, ekadā sunakkhatto, ekadā cundo samaṇuddeso, ekadā sāgato, ekadā meghiyo. Tattha ekadā bhagavā nāgasamālattherena saddhiṃ addhānamaggapaṭipanno dvedhāpathaṃ patto. Thero maggā okkamma – ‘‘bhagavā, ahaṃ iminā maggena gacchāmī’’ti āha. Atha naṃ bhagavā – ‘‘ehi bhikkhu, iminā maggena gacchāmā’’ti āha. So – ‘‘handa, bhagavā, tumhākaṃ pattacīvaraṃ gaṇhatha, ahaṃ iminā maggena gacchāmī’’ti vatvā pattacīvaraṃ chamāyaṃ ṭhapetuṃ āraddho. Atha naṃ bhagavā – ‘‘āhara, bhikkhū’’ti vatvā pattacīvaraṃ gahetvā gato. Tassapi bhikkhuno itarena maggena gacchato corā pattacīvarañceva hariṃsu, sīsañca bhindiṃsu. So – ‘‘bhagavā idāni me paṭisaraṇaṃ, na añño’’ti cintetvā lohitena gaḷitena bhagavato santikaṃ agamāsi. ‘‘Kimidaṃ bhikkhū’’ti ca vutte taṃ pavattiṃ ārocesi. Atha naṃ bhagavā – ‘‘mā cintayi, bhikkhu, etaṃyeva te kāraṇaṃ sallakkhetvā nivārayimhā’’ti vatvā naṃ samassāsesi.

Ekadā pana bhagavā meghiyattherena saddhiṃ pācīnavaṃsamigadāye jantugāmaṃ agamāsi. Tatrāpi meghiyo jantugāme piṇḍāya caritvā nadītīre pāsādikaṃ ambavanaṃ disvā – ‘‘bhagavā, tumhākaṃ pattacīvaraṃ gaṇhatha, ahaṃ tasmiṃ ambavane samaṇadhammaṃ karomī’’ti vatvā bhagavatā tikkhattuṃ nivāriyamānopi gantvā akusalavitakkehi upadduto anvāsatto (a. ni. 9.3; udāna paricchedo 31 daṭṭhabbo). Paccāgantvā taṃ pavattiṃ ārocesi. Tampi bhagavā – ‘‘idameva te kāraṇaṃ sallakkhetvā nivārayimhā’’ti vatvā anupubbena sāvatthiṃ agamāsi. Tattha gandhakuṭipariveṇe paññattavarabuddhāsane nisinno bhikkhusaṅghaparivuto bhikkhū āmantesi – ‘‘bhikkhave, idānimhi mahallako, ‘ekacce bhikkhū iminā maggena gacchāmā’ti vutte aññena gacchanti, ekacce mayhaṃ pattacīvaraṃ nikkhipanti, mayhaṃ nibaddhupaṭṭhākaṃ ekaṃ bhikkhuṃ jānāthā’’ti. Bhikkhūnaṃ dhammasaṃvego udapādi. Athāyasmā sāriputto uṭṭhāyāsanā bhagavantaṃ vanditvā – ‘‘ahaṃ, bhante, tumheyeva patthayamāno satasahassakappādhikaṃ asaṅkhyeyyaṃ pāramiyo pūrayiṃ, nanu mādiso mahāpañño upaṭṭhāko nāma vaṭṭati, ahaṃ upaṭṭhahissāmī’’ti āha. Taṃ bhagavā – ‘‘alaṃ sāriputta, yassaṃ disāyaṃ tvaṃ viharasi, asuññāyeva me sā disā, tava ovādo buddhānaṃ ovādasadiso, na me tayā upaṭṭhākakiccaṃ atthī’’ti paṭikkhipi. Etenevupāyena mahāmoggallānaṃ ādiṃ katvā asītimahāsāvakā uṭṭhahiṃsu. Te sabbepi bhagavā paṭikkhipi.

Ānandatthero pana tuṇhīyeva nisīdi. Atha naṃ bhikkhū evamāhaṃsu – ‘‘āvuso, ānanda, bhikkhusaṅgho upaṭṭhākaṭṭhānaṃ yācati, tvampi yācāhī’’ti. So āha – ‘‘yācitvā laddhupaṭṭhānaṃ nāma āvuso kīdisaṃ hoti, kiṃ maṃ satthā na passati, sace rocissati, ānando maṃ upaṭṭhātūti vakkhatī’’ti. Atha bhagavā – ‘‘na, bhikkhave, ānando aññena ussāhetabbo, sayameva jānitvā maṃ upaṭṭhahissatī’’ti āha. Tato bhikkhū – ‘‘uṭṭhehi, āvuso ānanda, uṭṭhehi āvuso ānanda, dasabalaṃ upaṭṭhākaṭṭhānaṃ yācāhī’’ti āhaṃsu. Thero uṭṭhahitvā cattāro paṭikkhepe, catasso ca āyācanāti aṭṭha vare yāci.

Cattāro paṭikkhepā nāma‘‘sace me, bhante, bhagavā attanā laddhaṃ paṇītaṃ cīvaraṃ na dassati, piṇḍapātaṃ na dassati, ekagandhakuṭiyaṃ vasituṃ na dassati, nimantanaṃ gahetvā na gamissati, evāhaṃ bhagavantaṃ upaṭṭhahissāmī’’ti vatvā – ‘‘kiṃ panettha, ānanda, ādīnavaṃ passasī’’ti vutte – ‘‘sacāhaṃ, bhante, imāni vatthūni labhissāmi, bhavissanti vattāro – ‘ānando dasabalena laddhaṃ paṇītaṃ cīvaraṃ paribhuñjati, piṇḍapātaṃ paribhuñjati, ekagandhakuṭiyaṃ vasati, ekato nimantanaṃ gacchati, etaṃ lābhaṃ labhanto tathāgataṃ upaṭṭhāti, ko evaṃ upaṭṭhahato bhāro’ti’’ ime cattāro paṭikkhepe yāci.

Catasso āyācanā nāma‘‘sace, bhante, bhagavā mayā gahitanimantanaṃ gamissati, sacāhaṃ tiroraṭṭhā tirojanapadā bhagavantaṃ daṭṭhuṃ āgataṃ parisaṃ āgatakkhaṇe eva bhagavantaṃ dassetuṃ lacchāmi, yadā me kaṅkhā uppajjati, tasmiṃyeva khaṇe bhagavantaṃ upasaṅkamituṃ lacchāmi, yaṃ bhagavā mayhaṃ parammukhā dhammaṃ deseti, taṃ āgantvā mayhaṃ kathessati, evāhaṃ bhagavantaṃ upaṭṭhahissāmī’’ti vatvā – ‘‘kaṃ panettha, ānanda, ānisaṃsaṃ passasī’’ti vutte – ‘‘idha, bhante, saddhā kulaputtā bhagavato okāsaṃ alabhantā maṃ evaṃ vadanti – ‘sve, bhante ānanda, bhagavatā saddhiṃ amhākaṃ ghare bhikkhaṃ gaṇheyyāthā’ti, sace bhante bhagavā tattha na gamissati, icchitakkhaṇeyeva parisaṃ dassetuṃ, kaṅkhañca vinodetuṃ okāsaṃ na lacchāmi, bhavissanti vattāro – ‘kiṃ ānando dasabalaṃ upaṭṭhāti, ettakampissa anuggahaṃ bhagavā na karotī’ti. Bhagavato ca parammukhā maṃ pucchissanti – ‘ayaṃ, āvuso ānanda, gāthā, idaṃ suttaṃ, idaṃ jātakaṃ, kattha desita’nti. Sacāhaṃ taṃ na sampādayissāmi, bhavissanti vattāro – ‘ettakampi, āvuso, na jānāsi, kasmā tvaṃ chāyā viya bhagavantaṃ avijahanto dīgharattaṃ vicarasī’ti. Tenāhaṃ parammukhā desitassapi dhammassa puna kathanaṃ icchāmī’’ti imā catasso āyācanā yāci. Bhagavāpissa adāsi.

Evaṃ ime aṭṭha vare gahetvā nibaddhupaṭṭhāko ahosi. Tasseva ṭhānantarassatthāya kappasatasahassaṃ pūritānaṃ pāramīnaṃ phalaṃ pāpuṇīti imassa nibaddhupaṭṭhākabhāvaṃ sandhāya – ‘‘mayhaṃ, bhikkhave, etarahi ānando bhikkhu upaṭṭhāko aggupaṭṭhāko’’ti āha. Ayaṃ upaṭṭhākaparicchedo nāma.


The same information can be found at AA i 294, and it seems to be practically verbatim. And in a modified form at KA, 308, Apadāna-aṭṭhakathā, 3-10. Ānandattheraapadānavaṇṇanā. This is the apadāna for the Venerable himself.

:anjali:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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