sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

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retrofuturist
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Virgo wrote:Sati is a conditioned reality that simply arises and fallls away. It is without a controller or an owner. Like all dhammas it is not-self.
A 'conditioned reality' that is to be developed and sustained through the deliberate cultivation of wholesome conditions, however
"Suppose, monks, that a large crowd of people comes thronging together, saying, 'The beauty queen! The beauty queen!' And suppose that the beauty queen is highly accomplished at singing & dancing, so that an even greater crowd comes thronging, saying, 'The beauty queen is singing! The beauty queen is dancing!' Then a man comes along, desiring life & shrinking from death, desiring pleasure & abhorring pain. They say to him, 'Now look here, mister. You must take this bowl filled to the brim with oil and carry it on your head in between the great crowd & the beauty queen. A man with a raised sword will follow right behind you, and wherever you spill even a drop of oil, right there will he cut off your head.' Now what do you think, monks: Will that man, not paying attention to the bowl of oil, let himself get distracted outside?"

"No, lord."

"I have given you this parable to convey a meaning. The meaning is this: The bowl filled to the brim with oil stands for mindfulness immersed in the body. Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will develop mindfulness immersed in the body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding, steady it, consolidate it, and undertake it well.' That is how you should train yourselves."
From SN 47.20 - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As it is with mindfulness of the body, so it is with mindfulness of other subject matter.

A one sentence explanation of sati... A sustained awareness of what arises, changes and passes away

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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m0rl0ck
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by m0rl0ck »

I do like this tho, leaves nothing to the imagination and no room for interpretation:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/bud ... ntion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Attention

There's an old Zen story: a student said to Master Ichu, 'Please write for me something of great wisdom.'

Master Ichu picked up his brush and wrote one word: 'Attention.'

The student said, 'Is that all?'

The master wrote, 'Attention. Attention.'

The student became irritable. 'That doesn't seem profound or subtle to me.'

In response, Master Ichu wrote simply, 'Attention. Attention. Attention.'

In frustration, the student demanded, 'What does this word attention mean?'

Master Ichu replied, 'Attention means attention.'

Source: Charlotte Joko Beck. 1993. Nothing special: Living Zen. New York: HarperCollins. 168.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
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Michael_S
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by Michael_S »

in one word or phrase What is Mindfulness/sati for you?
This, That, Now
PeterB
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by PeterB »

When was that then ?
alan
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by alan »

We've all heard that Zen story a million times. It's meaningless.
What you do with your attention--now that is worth discussing.
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m0rl0ck
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by m0rl0ck »

alan wrote:We've all heard that Zen story a million times. It's meaningless.
What you do with your attention--now that is worth discussing.

Yes i agree, just "attention" doesnt have nearly enough polysyllabic words or deep concepts. Its much too simple to really mean anything of value. Forgive me, i dont know what i was thinking.

Edit: in addition, the fact that the story has survived all this time is probably just chance. The fact that a teacher the caliber of charlotte joko beck included it in her book doenst mean anything either, especially in the face of the judgement of some guy on an internet forum. Im going to immediately set out to forget the entire anedote, Thank you again for bringing me to my senses. :bow:
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
PeterB
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by PeterB »

m0rl0ck wrote:I do like this tho, leaves nothing to the imagination and no room for interpretation:
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/bud ... ntion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Attention

There's an old Zen story: a student said to Master Ichu, 'Please write for me something of great wisdom.'

Master Ichu picked up his brush and wrote one word: 'Attention.'

The student said, 'Is that all?'

The master wrote, 'Attention. Attention.'

The student became irritable. 'That doesn't seem profound or subtle to me.'

In response, Master Ichu wrote simply, 'Attention. Attention. Attention.'

In frustration, the student demanded, 'What does this word attention mean?'

Master Ichu replied, 'Attention means attention.'

Source: Charlotte Joko Beck. 1993. Nothing special: Living Zen. New York: HarperCollins. 168.
groannnn. :zzz:
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m0rl0ck
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by m0rl0ck »

PeterB wrote: groannnn. :zzz:

:D yah familarity breeds contempt. and paying attention should be exciting, should it not? maybe even entertaining.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
PeterB
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by PeterB »

This is the Modern THERAVADA forum Morlock.
Its part of the General Theravada discussion Forum.
alan
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by alan »

We have heard it a million times because it is so easy to quote. It's been quoted so many times because it is so widely disseminated. It's meaningless because it says nothing of value. Don't agree? Put it to a test. A wild animal stalking prey is paying attention. Is she now a Buddhist?
Don't like that one? Ok, just pay attention. And then do something with it. Attention alone, my good friend, is not a Buddhist teaching. There is also a bit about Right Effort. If you can show otherwise, I'd love to hear about it.
--just some guy on the internet.
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m0rl0ck
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by m0rl0ck »

Ok guys. My apologies, i didnt realize the concept of attention as expressed in the zen story above was foreign enough to the theravada concept of sati as to cause a problem. What do i know, im just a dumb zen guy :)
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
PeterB
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by PeterB »

Apology accepted.
PeterB
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by PeterB »

alan wrote:We have heard it a million times because it is so easy to quote. It's been quoted so many times because it is so widely disseminated. It's meaningless because it says nothing of value. Don't agree? Put it to a test. A wild animal stalking prey is paying attention. Is she now a Buddhist?
Don't like that one? Ok, just pay attention. And then do something with it. Attention alone, my good friend, is not a Buddhist teaching. There is also a bit about Right Effort. If you can show otherwise, I'd love to hear about it.
--just some guy on the internet.
and sila.
alan
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by alan »

Apologize if I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's an 8-fold path. If the Buddha had meant to tell us that attention attention attention was the way to liberation, wouldn't he just call it a one-fold path?
I'm just a guy on the internet, don't have any caliber.
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Sobeh
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Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati

Post by Sobeh »

retrofuturist wrote:A sustained awareness of what arises, changes and passes away
This summary definition of sati is in complete agreement with my recent reading of the Satipatthanasamyutta.
:heart:
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