In fairness to the tradition, it follows the 8-fold path as wellalan wrote:Apologize if I'm pointing out the obvious, but it's an 8-fold path. If the Buddha had meant to tell us that attention attention attention was the way to liberation, wouldn't he just call it a one-fold path?
I'm just a guy on the internet, don't have any caliber.
sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Hi m0rl0ck,m0rl0ck wrote:Ok guys. My apologies, i didnt realize the concept of attention as expressed in the zen story above was foreign enough to the theravada concept of sati as to cause a problem. What do i know, im just a dumb zen guy
There is nothing for you to appologise for!
in my understanding of this forum (which is why I placed this thread here) other schools expressions are NOT excluded from being appropriate, so long as they do not contradict the theravadan pov's, or ditract from the.
as I asked for personal understanding of what mindfulness is, poetic licence is more than allowed here and encouraged rather than some academic sutta quoting match.
I didn't put this in the personal experiance as I am not asking for personal experiance, or looking for any traditions pov, rather personal pov's which are or can aid others in understanding the varied Theravadin ideas of what Mindfulness is, which your quote meats the criteria of in my understanding.
your Zen quote may be used more times than whatever, as some have said, but it is sometimes these cliché things that we need to reflect on most.
BTW I have heard & read Theravadin teachers say X is simply X, it isn't just a zen thing and thank-you for answering the OPQ
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Are snarky replies to others' contributions part of the practice? If so, I'm out.
adosa
adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Some here seem to think that they have the only true understanding of sati and its manifold meanings and applications and that they have the authority to put down another's personal interpretation of it. But they themselves cannot practice basic mindfulness of speech. What they are expressing are mere definition's of sati from the suttas and seem to lack any personal understanding of how to actually practice it.adosa wrote:Are snarky replies to others' contributions part of the practice? If so, I'm out.
adosa
Last edited by bodom on Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
There should have been no need for an apology to begin with. Morlock is the one who deserves the apology.PeterB wrote:Apology accepted.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Well said.bodom wrote:Some here seem to think they understand sati and its manifold meanings and that they have the authority to put down another's personal interpretation of it. But they themselves cannot practice basic mindfulness of speech.adosa wrote:Are snarky replies to others' contributions part of the practice? If so, I'm out.
adosa
metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27839
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Greetings,
Fair enough, yes this is a Theravada forum, but I had enough trouble thinking of a definition of "mindfulness" that did not use the word "mindfulness" itself!
"Attention means attention" is useful to the extent that it restricts it to what it is without venturing into what it isn't (e.g. conceptual proliferation)
Anyone else have any understandings on sati to share?
Metta,
Retro.
Fair enough, yes this is a Theravada forum, but I had enough trouble thinking of a definition of "mindfulness" that did not use the word "mindfulness" itself!
"Attention means attention" is useful to the extent that it restricts it to what it is without venturing into what it isn't (e.g. conceptual proliferation)
Anyone else have any understandings on sati to share?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
I strongly recommend reading the chapter on Sati in Analayo's Satipatthana commentary for an extensive in depth look at sati and its various meanings and uses within the tipitaka.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
You missed my point entirely. I have to remember that we Brits use language in a way not always clear to others. It was a joke.bodom wrote:There should have been no need for an apology to begin with. Morlock is the one who deserves the apology.PeterB wrote:Apology accepted.
Of course he had nothing to apologise for.
But lets leave it there. Before a common language divides us further..
The serious note within in my post was that for me at least, answering a question with a Zen anecdote raises more problems than it solves..not least it fires my cliche alarm.
Perhaps I have spent too long being utterly baffled on ZFI by a set of self referencing concepts that I had no access to
But if it helps others then fine. It was only a point of view .....
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Its also in line with what I was taught.Sobeh wrote:This summary definition of sati is in complete agreement with my recent reading of the Satipatthanasamyutta.retrofuturist wrote:A sustained awareness of what arises, changes and passes away
That " sustained awareness" of course needs frequent renewal..
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Then I offer my apologies to you Peter.PeterB wrote:You missed my point entirely. I have to remember that we Brits use language in a way not always clear to others. It was a joke....Of course he had nothing to apologise for.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Bodom: I've ordered the book you recommended and look forward to reading it. Also looked up "snark" on urban dictionary.
Can't apologize for my rapid-fire brain, which has no tolerance for dumbness. And I'll stand by my statements.
However, it is true that it is nice to be nice, and I'm not always nice. Sorry for the ruffled feathers.
Can't apologize for my rapid-fire brain, which has no tolerance for dumbness. And I'll stand by my statements.
However, it is true that it is nice to be nice, and I'm not always nice. Sorry for the ruffled feathers.
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
Bodom you are a sweetie, but you have nothing to apologise for either...bodom wrote:Then I offer my apologies to you Peter.PeterB wrote:You missed my point entirely. I have to remember that we Brits use language in a way not always clear to others. It was a joke....Of course he had nothing to apologise for.
We are all in this together learning and more learning..
Peter.
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
now lets get back to the OP question
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: sort of Poll on Mindfulness - sati
paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and non-judgmentally.