Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

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Sucitto
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Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Sucitto » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:10 am

Namo Buddhaya,
I am just thinking about the Hinayana and Theravada Buddhism. I've ever read a Buddhist book about history of Buddhist which said The Hinayana Buddhist had gone in India and the teaching of Buddha was brought to Sri Lanka and finally, became Theravada Buddhism.
So, my question are "If that's true, why the Hinayana Buddhism was gone?" & "what is the different of Hinayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism?"

I hope anybody can tell me clearly.
Thank you & Anumodana. :anjali:

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Virgo » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:20 am

In India there were various sects. Some were classified as hinayana, some were classified as mahayana.

India disappeared from mainland India for a number of reasons, including the Muslim invasions.

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:26 am

Greetings,

Sucitto wrote:"What is the different of Hinayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism?"


Hinayana is what Mahayana calls the 18 early schools of Buddhism (incl. Theravada).

Theravada is how Theravada refers to itself.

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:48 am

Sucitto wrote:Namo Buddhaya,
I am just thinking about the Hinayana and Theravada Buddhism. I've ever read a Buddhist book about history of Buddhist which said The Hinayana Buddhist had gone in India and the teaching of Buddha was brought to Sri Lanka and finally, became Theravada Buddhism.
So, my question are "If that's true, why the Hinayana Buddhism was gone?" & "what is the different of Hinayana Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism?"

I hope anybody can tell me clearly.
Thank you & Anumodana.

The term "hinayana" is an ugly Mahayana polemical term coined by Mahayanists to both classify and refer to those schools of Buddhism with which the Mahayana disagreed. No school of Buddhism referred to itself as hinayana, "the scorned vehicle." Later the term hinayana took on differing meaning refering to a type of lesser attitude.

As for the Mainstream schools of India - that is, all the schools of Buddhism of India that were not Mahayana (which was a very small minority movement within India), all died out except the Theravada because the Theravada was ensconced in Sri Lanka, away from the Hindu persecutions and Muslim invasions.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:02 am

Hello,
This has probably been gone over more than enough here, with plenty of info and threads to pick from, just do a quick search for the term, may be best. the search box is in the top right of the screen.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
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"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby cooran » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:26 am

Hello Sucitto,

These articles may be of interest:

The myth of Hinayana - Kare A. Lie
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha140.htm

Mahayana and Hinayana - Ven. Abhinyana
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha188.htm

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:43 am

Here is a Tibetan Buddhist response to the question, which is appropriate here:

Reginald Ray in his INDESTRUCTABLE TRUTH, pgs 238-9, 240 wrote: Each school, whether classified as Hinayana, Mahayana, or Vajrayana, has practitioners at all levels of understanding. For example, one can be a member of a Hinayana school yet have a Vajrayana level of maturation, or follow a Vajrayana school with a Mahayana level of understanding. And, as Ringu Tulku points out, one can even belong to a Mahayana school and not be practicing Buddhism at all! Trungpa Rinpoche once expressed the view that within the Theravadin Tradition over the course of its history, there were undoubtedly realized people who reflected a Mahayana and even a Vajrayana orientation. He also commented that within historical Theravada there were probably realized siddhas (the Tantric Buddhist enlightened ideal).

This somewhat complex way of talking about schools and practitioners makes a simple but important point. The school or sect that a person belongs to does not really tell us about his or her level of understanding, maturation, or attainment. A practitioner is to be evaluated strictly according to the degree of humility, insight, and compassion. A Vajrayana practitioner who thinks that he or she is automatically at a higher level than a Theravadin completely misunderstands the matter. . . .

In fact, as we shall see presently, "Hinayana" refers to a critical but strictly limited set of views, practices, and results. The pre-Mahayana historical traditions such as the Theravada are far richer, more complex, and more profound than the definition of "Hinayana" would allow. ...The tern "Hinayana" is thus a stereotype that is useful in talking about a particular stage on the Tibetan Buddhist path, but it is really not appropriate to assume that the Tibetan definition of Hinayana identifies a venerable living tradition as the Theravada or any other historical school."
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
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dheamhan a fhios agam

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby BlackBird » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:50 am

To cut a long etymological story short 'hina' in the Sanskrit is a pretty nasty word. The word developed less scornful connotations over the centuries, due in no small part, I would venture, for the need of a doctrinal phrase less in contradiction with the whole bodhicitta thing. Indeed the word itself in the Chinese, Japanese and Tibetan simply means 'small' or 'lesser' which to me reflects a shift in polemic theology.

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby karuna_murti » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:58 pm

Actually Buddha use the word "hīno" when refering to the two extreme path.

‘‘dveme, bhikkhave, antā pabbajitena na sevitabbā. Katame dve? Yo cāyaṃ kāmesu kāmasukhallikānuyogo hīno gammo pothujjaniko anariyo anatthasaṃhito, yo cāyaṃ attakilamathānuyogo dukkho anariyo anatthasaṃhito. Ete kho, bhikkhave, ubho ante anupagamma majjhimā paṭipadā tathāgatena abhisambuddhā cakkhukaraṇī ñāṇakaraṇī upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṃvattati’

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:45 pm

karuna_murti wrote:Actually Buddha use the word "hīno" when refering to the two extreme path.

‘‘dveme, bhikkhave, antā pabbajitena na sevitabbā. Katame dve? Yo cāyaṃ kāmesu kāmasukhallikānuyogo hīno gammo pothujjaniko anariyo anatthasaṃhito, yo cāyaṃ attakilamathānuyogo dukkho anariyo anatthasaṃhito. Ete kho, bhikkhave, ubho ante anupagamma majjhimā paṭipadā tathāgatena abhisambuddhā cakkhukaraṇī ñāṇakaraṇī upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṃvattati’


Here is the whole Pali Text Society Dictionary’s entry on hina:

Hina (p. 732) [pp. of jahati] 1. inferior, low; poor, miserable; vile, base, abject, contemptible, despicable Vin I.10; D I.82, 98; S II.154 (hinan dhatun paticca uppajjati hina sanna); III.47; IV.88, 309 (citta h. duggata); D III.106, 111 sq., 215 (dhatu); A II.154; III.349 sq.; V.59 sq.; Sn 799, 903 sq.; Nd1 48, 103, 107, 146; J II.6; Pv IV.127 (opp. panita); Vv 2413 (=lamaka VvA 116); Dhs 1025; DhsA 45; Miln 288; Vism 13; DhA III.163. -- Often opposed to ukkattha (exalted, decent, noble), e. g. Vin IV.6; J I.20, 22; III.218; VbhA 410; or in graduated sequence hina (>majjhima)>panita (i. e. low, medium, excellent), e. g. Vism 11, 85 sq., 424, 473. See majjhima. -- 2. deprived of, wanting, lacking Sn 725= It 106 (ceto--vimutti°); Pug 35. -- hinaya avattati to turn to the lower, to give up orders, return to secular life Vin I.17; S II.231; IV.191; Ud 21; A III.393 sq.; M I.460; Sn p. 92; Pug 66; hinaya vattati id. J I.276; hinay'avatta one who returns to the world M I.460, 462; S II.50; IV.103; Nd1 147.
nn--adhimutta having low inclinations J III.87; Pug 26; °ika id. S II.157; It 70. --kaya inferior assembly VvA 298 (here meaning Yamaloka); PvA 5. --jacca lowborn, low--caste J II.5; III.452; V.19, 257. --vada one whose doctrine is defective Sn 827; Nd1 167. --viriya lacking in energy It 116; DhA I.75; II.260.


From the opening lines of the Buddha's TURNING OF THE WHEEL DISCOURSE, SN v 420:

"Monks, these two extremes ought not to be practiced by one who has gone forth from the household life. (What are the two?) There is addiction to indulgence of sense-pleasures, which is hiina, coarse, vulgar, ignoble, and leads to no good; and there is devotion to self-torment, which is painful, ignoble and leads to no good."

When there is a string of words such as this in the Pali texts, they are understood as being synonyms, or at least carrying overlapping meanings. Hiina is seen here in decidedly negative terms, particularly in the context of sense pleasures.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:08 pm

Sucitto wrote: The Hinayana Buddhist had gone in India and the teaching of Buddha was brought to Sri Lanka and finally, became Theravada Buddhism.


Early Buddhism did not "become" Theravada in Sri Lanka. It was already known as Theravada around the time of the Third Council, when it was still very firmly in place in India (about 250 BCE).

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby cooran » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:48 pm

Hello all,

EXCERPT: Theravada - Mahayana Buddhism Ven. Dr. W. Rahula
(From: "Gems of Buddhist Wisdom", Buddhist Missionary Society, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, 1996)

We must not confuse Hinayana with Theravada because the terms are not synonymous. Theravada Buddhism went to Sri Lanka during the 3rd Century B.C. when there was no Mahayana at all.
Hinayana sects developed in India and had an existence independent from the form of Buddhism existing in Sri Lanka.
Today there is no Hinayana sect in existence anywhere in the world.
Therefore, in 1950 the World Fellowship of Buddhists inaugurated in Colombo unanimously decided that the term Hinayana should be dropped when referring to Buddhism existing today in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Burma, Cambodia, Laos, etc.
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/theramaya.html

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Bankei » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:23 am

I think the term Hinayana is used differently by different people.

To some Hinayana means any non-mahayana school such as Sarvastivada, Dharmaguptaka, Theravada etc. Theravada is only one of the Hinayana schools. Some say it is the only surviving Hinayana school, but the Mula-sarvastivada and Dharmaguptaka lineages survive to this day as all Mahayana Bhikkhu belong to one of these schools - although they may not hold the philosophical ideas of the school.

Another use of Hinayana is a generic term used in some Mahayana works to despise a certain group of Buddhists. This may not actually refer to any specific schools in existent then or now.

A for Cooran's statement by Dr Rahula Walpoha, this can't be correct. Some early Chinese translations of Mahayana works occurred around the year 150AD. Therefore Mahayana must have been in existence well before then. There were also several non-Theravada schools in Sri-Lanka as well as Mahayana schools. The Chinese Bhikkhuni lineage was said to have started from the Mahisasaka school of Sri Lanka.
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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Ben » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:29 am

Moved to General Theravada discussion
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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:28 am

Bankei wrote:I think the term Hinayana is used differently by different people.


I've always understood the real meaning of "Hinayana" to be quite different from the two you've mentioned, Hinayana is a style of practice or an attitude towards practice.

This is how Shunryu Suzuki uses it; "I Always say our practice is very Hinayanistic. Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is Soto way. Rigid formal practice with an informal mind. This is our practice. Our Practice sometimes looks very formal but our mind is informal".

I would say Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is also the best way to approach practice in Theravada.
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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:37 am

Bankei wrote:I think the term Hinayana is used differently by different people.
It is more likely that hinayana acquired shades of meanings over time. It basically started out its life as a sectarian, supersessionist, triumphalist polemical term of derision directed at those who did not buy into the Mahayana vision.

To some Hinayana means any non-mahayana school such as Sarvastivada, Dharmaguptaka, Theravada etc. Theravada is only one of the Hinayana schools. Some say it is the only surviving Hinayana school, but the Mula-sarvastivada and Dharmaguptaka lineages survive to this day as all Mahayana Bhikkhu belong to one of these schools - although they may not hold the philosophical ideas of the school.
The Theravada is only a “hinayana” school only if one uses the Mahayana system of classification, but there is absolutely no objective basis or need for using such a sectarian, polemical basis of classification.

Also, one needs to distinguish between ordination lineages and doctrinal schools. While the Mula-sarvastivada and Dharmaguptaka ordination lineages still exist, the Mainstream doctrinal lineages associated with the ordination lineages are quite dead.

Keep in mind, no school of Buddhism ever called it self hinayana: the scorned, the discarded, the vile school.

Another use of Hinayana is a generic term used in some Mahayana works to despise a certain group of Buddhists. This may not actually refer to any specific schools in existent then or now.
Out side of the questionable issue that the word hinayana ”may not actually refer to any specific schools in existent then or now,” what does that tell you about those who would coin such a term and put it into the mouth of the Buddha?

The early bodhisattva sutras did not use the term hinayana. Mahayana was not contrasted in those texts with hinayana, nor did the authors of those texts see that being a bodhisttva was necessary of everyone; rather, being a bodhisattva was a select practice for the few. The use of the term hinayana and the idea that being a bodhisattva was the only real way of practice for everyone go hand-in-hand.

A for Cooran's statement by Dr Rahula Walpoha, this can't be correct. Some early Chinese translations of Mahayana works occurred around the year 150AD. Therefore Mahayana must have been in existence well before then. There were also several non-Theravada schools in Sri-Lanka as well as Mahayana schools. The Chinese Bhikkhuni lineage was said to have started from the Mahisasaka school of Sri Lanka.
"... even after its initial appearance in the public domain in the 2nd century [Mahayana] appears to have remained an extremely limited minority movement - if it remained at all - that attracted absolutely no documented public or popular support for at least two more centuries. It is again a demonstrable fact that anything even approaching popular support for the Mahayana cannot be documented until 4th/5th century AD, and even then the support is overwhelmingly monastic, not lay, donors ... although there was - as we know from Chinese translations - a large and early Mahayana literature there was no early, organized, independent, publicly supported movement that it could have belonged to." -- G. Schopen "The Inscription on the Ku.san image of Amitabha and the character of the early Mahayana in India." JIABS 10, 2 pgs 124-5.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:43 am

Goofaholix wrote:
I would say Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is also the best way to approach practice in Theravada.

I would say that Theravadin practice with Theravadin spirit is the way to go.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:53 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:
I would say Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is also the best way to approach practice in Theravada.

I would say that Theravadin practice with Theravadin spirit is the way to go.

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby bodom » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:57 am

Goofaholix wrote:I would say Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is also the best way to approach practice in Theravada.


Just curious but what would be your definition of Mahayana spirit? And what is hinayana practice? If Theravada is not hinayana why would Theravadans practice a hinayana type practice? What is hinayana practice anyway if hinayana schools are no longer existent or practiced anymore?

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The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Differences Hinayana & Theravada Buddhism

Postby Goofaholix » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:43 am

bodom wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:I would say Hinayana practice with a Mahayana spirit is also the best way to approach practice in Theravada.


Just curious but what would be your definition of Mahayana spirit? And what is hinayana practice? If Theravada is not hinayana why would Theravadans practice a hinayana type practice? What is hinayana practice anyway if hinayana schools are no longer existent or practiced anymore?

:anjali:


I think you missed my point, Hinayana is not a school it's a style or approach to practice, Theravadin students would do it for the same reason Zen students do.

In the way Suzuki Roshi uses it Hinayana practice is concerned with disciplined detailed practice, step by step adherence to a method or discipline. Anyone who has been on a Theravadin Vipassana retreat or a Zen Sesshin will know just what I'm talking about.

Mahayana spirit (or mind) is to see the big picture, big mind, to be open, to free the mind to see things from a whole different viewpoint.

This is a balanced approach to practice. Don't get hung up in this school vs that school or this doctrine vs that doctrine. If you only have method and discipline without any capacity to free your mind then you'll hit a dead end, if you have a big mind but no discipline you'll get lost.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah


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