Age limit for entering monastic life?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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genkaku
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by genkaku »

I have looked into ordination and would probably be a novice now if I hadn't met the love of my life!
Hi Manapa -- Stick with the 'love of my life' and all the benefits imagined as arising from a monastic setting will gather around your feet.

Just my take.
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kc2dpt
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by kc2dpt »

Chris wrote:Do I notice a slight tendency in this thread for posters to assume it is only Males who may wish to ordain someday?
Well this is a Theravada sub-forum and the Theravada bhikkhuni order died out a long time ago so... you want to discuss what the age limits were back when the bhikkhuni order still existed?
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by Cittasanto »

genkaku wrote:
I have looked into ordination and would probably be a novice now if I hadn't met the love of my life!
Hi Manapa -- Stick with the 'love of my life' and all the benefits imagined as arising from a monastic setting will gather around your feet.

Just my take.
I still have moments of packing it all in and going to the monestery but I am the heir of my actions and quite content with how life is playing out for the majority of the time! it is quite good practice I find, having a partner that is!
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by PhiloDhamma »

I know that this thread is a little "stale," but I do have something to add to it--so far not mentioned by anyone else--so here goes.

1. I'm in Canada and I spoke to the Abbot of Birken Forest Monastery in Kamloops: Ajahn Sona, Thai Forest Tradtion. He informed me that as this monastery, the "cut-off age is 45." He was quick to add that it 'has to do with demographics." He didn't elablorate and I didn't puruse it, but I surmise it has to do with Dana. There's not a lot of lay support yet in Canada to support many monks, so perhaps he's concerned to see that support go to candidates with . . . more potential? I don't know. Anyway he suggested that if I wanted to go forth I should go to IMF in Thailand.

2. I once heard Ajahn Jayasaro speaking to a friend of mine who is perhaps 63 ish, and asking him if he hadn't thought of ordaining. My friend said that he thought we was too old. The Ajahn smiled and said: "you seem reasonably healthy..," and he more or less encouraged him to consider it, and put forth both Thailand and Sri Lanka as possibilities.

3. One monastic in the UK I was communicating with by email echoed that 45 is the age in the West.

So, there is a cut-off age in at least one Canadian monastery. That seems to be a broader limitation across much or all of the West. There is no cut-off age in Thailand or Sri Lanka.

The question I wonder at is: ok, so ordination at 53 (my age) in parts of Asia is a possibility--it's not excluded by rules or convention. But how "realistic" is it setting forth at my age? I'm seriously considering it since my family is mature and can spare me now, and since materially there would be no hardship. As it stands, I'm a teacher in a technical school with a pretty sweet opportunity for intensive summer practice during the 9 weeks annual vacation, then there's time off at Christmas, time off at spring break. The work isn't too demanding since I teach more or less the same courses each year, and it leaves enough time and energy for several hours of sitting each day. Yet the idea of going forth really, really appeals to me, and if the Buddha hadn't thought it was of value he wouldn't have recommended it. At the same time my present circumstances are pretty good, and I could move ahead as an 8 precept upasika with fairly generous--for lay life--opportunities for daily and extended practice. If I were 23, the answer would be clear, and I'd definitely go to Sri Lanka. But at 53, one is already grappling with decline to some degree, and materially there's no recovery time left if one goes forth and it's not what one thought it would be.

Aya Khema ordained at 54. But she returned to the West eventually. It seems that most do, doesn't it? Does anyone know of others who have ordained so late in life?

Friends, have you any thoughts? concerns? heckles? . . . moans?

Philodhama

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Sobeh
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by Sobeh »

There are two reasons I can think why there would be some guardedness around applicant age. The first has to do with a certain reticence to encourage ordination as a retirement program, but given your stability with respect to finances and everything else I don't think this is as likely as the second reason (although perhaps still played a part in the minds of those who didn't know you very well when you first asked about going forth).

No, I think the concern is probably more directly a practical one to do with being a medical burden on the lay supporters; besides this facet, I can see no other practical reason why ordination would be a problem. Perhaps there might be cut-off ages in the Forest Tradition because of the starker physical simplicity, issues related to access to health care that are generally not present in a more urban monastic setting? Asking this question of the monks might be more fruitful.

I have no pertinent information about the value of such a thing as Monk for a Month, but this might be something you're fantastically situated to do, something that can offer you an experience that will help ground your deliberations about going forth.

In any event, there are no Sutta-based age limits; wasn't there a bhikkhu who lived to something like 190, and ordained at age 80? Somewhere in the Majjhima Nikaya, I think...
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by Goofaholix »

It's pretty common in Thailand for ordination to be seen as a retirement programme, after all there is no superannuation in Thailand, the village Wats often contain a lot of of men and women of retirement age.

For forest Wats the lifestyle is physically demanding and they are unlikely to ordain someone they didn't think was physically up to it.
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by DNS »

PhiloDhamma wrote: So, there is a cut-off age in at least one Canadian monastery. That seems to be a broader limitation across much or all of the West. There is no cut-off age in Thailand or Sri Lanka.
See my post earlier in this thread. There have been at least two men who have ordained at the age of 85 or greater at a temple in Los Angeles.
At the same time my present circumstances are pretty good, and I could move ahead as an 8 precept upasika with fairly generous--for lay life--opportunities for daily and extended practice.

Aya Khema ordained at 54. But she returned to the West eventually. It seems that most do, doesn't it? Does anyone know of others who have ordained so late in life?
You mentioned 'upasika' and Ayya Khema, so I assume you are a woman? Excellent, I admire the courage and discipline. I assume you also know about some of the controversy where there are some monastics and lay people (mostly men) who are opposed to bhikkhuni ordination and you will face many tests of your perseverance in that regard?

You can obtain sameneri (novice 10 precept) ordination in the West, but you may have to go to Sri Lanka for the full ordination after two years (for bhikkhuni ordination).
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PhiloDhamma
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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by PhiloDhamma »

Actually I am a man; I mentioned Aya Khema only because that is one example I know of where a person my age ordained in Sri Lanka. I know it is possible, that I would be accepted in SE Asia. For me it is mostly a question of the practicality of ordaining late in life. Aya Khema returned to the west before long. It seems like most of the Bhikkus from the West either disrobe or at least return to the West eventually. I wonder that so few seem to stay, and it makes me wonder if the life there is very harsh, which begs the question: perhaps 53 is pushing it a bit.

I'm studying Singhala now, to try to increase the odds that I can integrate.

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Re: Age limit for entering monastic life?

Post by DNS »

PhiloDhamma wrote:Actually I am a man;
It seems like most of the Bhikkus from the West either disrobe or at least return to the West eventually. I wonder that so few seem to stay, and it makes me wonder if the life there is very harsh, which begs the question: perhaps 53 is pushing it a bit.
Hi PhiloDhamma,

I think it is just a matter of choice for the monks and also that they normally stay at least 5 years with their preceptor. Some stay, some return to the West. Ven. Appicchato, who regularly posts here has remained in Thailand for about 30 years or so.

Phra Khru Baitika, Ph.D. "Phra Bart" ordained late in life and also lives in Thailand. Here is his bio:
edit: link not working, but can be found by going here and clicking on Phra Khru Baitika, Ph.D.
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?tit ... ry:Bhantes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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