Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
pt1
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby pt1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:45 am

Thanks tilt and Kevin for your replies about insight, I appreciate it.

I have one question in that regard - I would think that insight goes through the following phases (not necessarily separate and linear):

1. understanding the difference between the conceptual and non-conceptual aspects of experience (dhammas and concepts in ultimate terminology)

2. Understanding the difference between wholesome and unwholesome aspects of non-conceptual experience (i.e. understnading the individual characteristics of dhammas)

3. understanding the tilakkhana characteristics and conditionality of the non-conceptual experience (dhammas).


So, I think you both confirmed points 1 and 3 (apologies if I'm misrepresenting you here). But I can't see whether you agree with point 2 about the individual characteristics?

I mean I would think that point 2 is crucial to developing the path, like knowing "this is mindfulness and this is greed, this is right concentration and this is wrong concentration, etc." I mean, then it's clear what is the path, and what is not the path, and then insight can actually progress in the right direction.

Would you agree here? Further, would you agree that individual characteristics define dhammas on par with tilakkhana, or do you think they are more (I'm trying to find the right words here) "conceptual" in nature, i.e. not really happening in experience?

Best wishes

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tiltbillings
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:52 am


pt1
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby pt1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:43 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:59 am


pt1
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby pt1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:21 am


Virgo
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby Virgo » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:32 pm



pt1
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby pt1 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:57 am


Virgo
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby Virgo » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:19 am

Hi Pt,

Both are known. If it is feeling for example, it is known that it is feeling; however, there is not proliferation about it at that moment because the consciousness at that moment is drenched, if you will allow me to use that term, in it's understanding of impermanence, not-self, or dukkhaness of the the dhamma at that time.

Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.


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retrofuturist
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:21 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Virgo
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby Virgo » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:32 am



pt1
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby pt1 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:07 am

Thanks Kevin, I might raise this about simultaneity and mind-door(s) on dsg when I find time, perhaps someone there will know.

Best wishes

Virgo
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Re: Questions regarding rising and falling of phenomena.

Postby Virgo » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:14 am




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