Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

In what do you believe?

A1) I believe in rebirth.
28
21%
A2) I dont believe in rebirth.
6
4%
B1) I believe in the real* [read thread first] existence of other realms, like hell, heaven, ghost realm, etc?
24
18%
B2) I dont believe in the real* existence of other realms, like hell, heaven, ghost realm, etc?
7
5%
C1) I believe that Buddha and some rare and advanced meditators have siddhis (the power to make "miracles").
25
19%
C2) I dont believe that Buddha and some rare and advanced meditators have siddhis (the power to make "miracles").
6
4%
D1) I believe in karma law.
33
25%
D2) I dont believe in karma law.
5
4%
 
Total votes: 134

Nosta
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Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Nosta » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:52 pm

Sometimes i dont know what buddhists think about some more mystical or "strange" (strange, to western people) concepts, like the existence of siddhis, or other realms of existence.

So, the questions in the poll, are meant to be answered both in the poll and in the thread. Also, have in mind that i would like to see answers about:
- What Theravada buddhism believe.
- What YOU believe.

The first question in the forum is about rebirth, rebirth after death, not reencarnation.

The second question is about your belief on the existence of other realms, like the devas world, hell, etc AND even Buddhas realms (Pure Land, etc). Please, dont start discussions like "Nothing is real, so, the hells are not real. Everything is illusion". NO, dont do that. When i use the word "real" its in a very simple way. For our purposes, when i say that the hell, heaven, etc are real, that means that they exist somewhere and are so real and solid like the computer you are using now, like your house, etc, even if you cant have any acess - right now - to such realms.

The third question is about siddhis or miracles or paranormal powers, etc. Do you believe that under certain circunstances (advanced stages of meditation, good kamma, etc) one may develop some "powers"?? If so, in wich "powers" do you believe?

Finally, the last question is about karma/kamma: do you believe that there is a kind of "moral" law in the world, that may affect people not only in this life but in others? Like, i kill someone in this life and in my next life i may suffer the consequences of that assassination. Its expectable that all buddhist believe in that, but even so, i decided to put such question.

POLL OPTIONS: you may choose for 4 options: A1 OR A2; B1 OR B2, etc. You may change your vote. Do it only if necessary.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:04 pm

Greetings,

I find it hard to vote in your poll given the absence of "I don't know" options.

I also may agree with certain things, but not your definitions of them.

Sorry if that sounds like I'm being difficult, but I feel the Dhamma is subtle (nipuno) and not necessarily amenable to blanket Yes and No responses.

Metta,
Retro. :)
“Delighting in existence O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence. they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind … (It. p 43)”

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meindzai
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby meindzai » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:14 pm

yeah, I have to be difficult too. I don't believe in "believing" so much. I hold certain views, such as rebirth, for the sake of practicing right view. But I do not say "I know this and only this is true, anything else is false."

-M

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:24 pm

As per the previous posters I neither believe nor disbelieve so I could only tick D1
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby meindzai » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:23 am

Goofaholix wrote: so I could only tick D1


Yeah, I guess that'll work. Kamma is, IMO, pretty directly verifiable,though not necessarily all it's implications.

-M

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:42 am

Nosta wrote:Sometimes i dont know what buddhists think about some more mystical or "strange" (strange, to western people) concepts, like the existence of siddhis, or other realms of existence.

.

how is any of it strange to the majority of westerners? most of whom i think belong to a religious order that takes literally the existence of miracles, angels, demons, hell, heaven, a zombie saviour, a talking donkey, an ocean in the sky, a world wide flood, that the sun plays no part in the light that is daytime, that stars are just hanging out up there with the clouds and not in space and other such things simply because they are in a book?
and even beyond that we've got daily horoscopes in all major newspapers, telephone psychics, wide spread belief in ghosts, ufos, that sarah palin would actually make a good leader etc etc
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:28 am

I believe them all, except where in the suttas it says that one can touch the sun and moon. I think that's just an expression of how powerfull one can be after developing 4th jhana.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Goofaholix
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:06 am

jcsuperstar wrote:how is any of it strange to the majority of westerners? most of whom i think belong to a religious order that takes literally the existence of miracles, angels, demons, hell, heaven, a zombie saviour, a talking donkey, an ocean in the sky, a world wide flood, that the sun plays no part in the light that is daytime, that stars are just hanging out up there with the clouds and not in space and other such things simply because they are in a book?
and even beyond that we've got daily horoscopes in all major newspapers, telephone psychics, wide spread belief in ghosts, ufos, that sarah palin would actually make a good leader etc etc


Must be some mighty strange westerners in your neck of the woods.
"Right effort is effort with wisdom. Because where there is wisdom, there is interest. The desire to know something is wisdom at work. Being mindful is not difficult. But it’s difficult to be continuously aware. For that you need right effort. But it does not require a great deal of energy. It’s relaxed perseverance in reminding yourself to be aware. When you are aware, wisdom unfolds naturally, and there is still more interest." - Sayadaw U Tejaniya

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BlackBird
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby BlackBird » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:44 am

Goofaholix wrote:Must be some mighty strange westerners in your neck of the woods.


I believe they call 'em Republicans.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:01 am

BlackBird wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:Must be some mighty strange westerners in your neck of the woods.


I believe they call 'em Republicans.

metta
Jack

and Democrats, though i think one might be a Muslim. Obama likes to tell us again and again how great of a christian he is.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:12 pm

Many polls show as many as 75% of people believe in the supernatural of some kind. If you include ghosts, ESP, angels and afterlife experiences. We can't take our own dis-belief as representing the norm. Of course, polls aren't always accurate either. But even the low-end ones show as high as 65%. :tongue:

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

Nosta
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Nosta » Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:36 pm

In fact i forgot the "i dont know option". :-)

Also, take the questions lightly. Dont go in to much detail. And people, you should try to discuss more and give less attention to the poll itself. :-)

Mukunda
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Mukunda » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:49 pm

I voted that "I believe", but in reality, I believe in the possibility more than the actual thing. I don't really spend much time pondering any of the above, except the standard daily recollection of kamma. "I am the owner of my kamma, heir to my kamma, born of my kamma, related to my kamma, abide supported by my kamma. Whatever kamma I shall do, whether good or evil, of that I shall be the heir."

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:23 am

Things like this don't seem to bother me as much as it does some people. If I woke up tomorrow and Obama was on TV with space aliens, and then I saw someone levitating in Lotus position down the street, then saw ghosts of my parents plying bridge on my sofa, I'd sip my coffee and say, "Hmm--how 'bout that?' interesting." i guess I'm not all that attached to a specific world-view. Or maybe I'm just loonie.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Tex
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Tex » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:03 am

Agreed with others, I would've voted "I don't know" a couple of times, specifically on siddhis and other realms. I'm skeptical in general, and I have no recollection of experiencing either of those. But I'm so convinced by the rest of the teachings, including the kamma and rebirth mentioned in the poll (which I find inseparable), and other teachings such as the nature and origin of suffering, that I'm willing to take his word on the stuff I'm not sure of yet.
"The serene and peaceful mind is the true epitome of human achievement."-- Ajahn Chah, Living Dhamma

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

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Ben
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Ben » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:24 am

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Or maybe I'm just loonie.


Jon,
There's been something I've been meaning to say to you...

Welcome to the club!

kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:03 am

Hooray, I'm in a club!

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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BlackBird
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby BlackBird » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:32 am

Can I join guys? How much are the subs?
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Ben
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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby Ben » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:06 am

Yeah, you can join Jack, but not your invisible friends, ok?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Re: Belief in rebirth, realms, siddhis, etc

Postby suriyopama » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:05 am

I also miss the option "I don't know".

I am not a believer. I'm just learning to observe.


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