Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

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Brizzy

Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:37 pm

Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

SN 47.10 Bhikkhunivasako Sutta.

:smile:

Sorry - I could not find a full & reliable online text.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:50 pm

No, there are some suttas which refer to this, Satipattana practice can and does lead onto the jhanas but sati and jhana are two seperat things [distinguished apart, but related], if you go onto access to insight and look at the wings to awakening there are some suttas pointed out in the end section look for Jhana in the index.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

meindzai
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby meindzai » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:15 pm

Can't say much in response to the unquoted Sutta - but I'd say no. However, sati (mindfulness) in general is an important mental factor in jhana, which starts to be included as a jhanic "factor" in the third jhana and comes to perfection in the fourth. Also, right mindfulness (which includes the four foundations) being a factor of the eightfold path serves as a support for right concentration.

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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Virgo » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:12 pm



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Alex123
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:46 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:13 am


Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:23 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:51 am


Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:59 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:08 pm


Virgo
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Virgo » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:46 pm



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Cittasanto
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:13 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Alex123
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:35 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Cittasanto
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:04 pm

Hi Brizzy & Alex,
Purity and perfected are not the same and would give slightly different connotations.

purity would give an implication of how sati is when in accompanying this Jhana, whereas perfected would imply that sati is not a seperate quality, and sammasati as a fold would not exist because it would be a part of sammasamadhi

as it is taught seperately, and within contexts outside of samadhi and Jhana the quote isn't providing reference to perfected, which I believe tilt was looking for.

just my take.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:42 pm


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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:48 am

if jhana and sati were synonymous wouldn't we just have a 7fold path?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:25 am


Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:48 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:51 am


Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:11 am



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