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Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Kenshou
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Kenshou » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:13 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:57 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:19 am


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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:07 pm

did I say sampajanna was not needed?

the reliability of that document for me is suspect due to several quirks noticed in a quick scim through.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:20 pm


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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:39 pm

same reason I wouldn't find a math textbook reliable when it states 1+1=2.5 as a correct equation.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:27 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:06 pm

I find that document unreliable it is as simple as that.

it is misleading due to the translation it uses of words, and its dealing with words as the same which are different this is blatently obvious just with the two quotes from it you and myself provided, inaccurate = unreliable

1 + 1 = 2.5 = wrong
1 + 1 = 2 = correct


what are you trying to prove?


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:33 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:38 am


Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:46 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:55 am


Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:08 pm


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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:48 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:59 am


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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:53 pm

There was no query, no claiming something wasn't needed, and nothing else implied!

try reading what I actually put.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy

Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Brizzy » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:24 am


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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:16 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun May 02, 2010 1:16 am

Greetings,

Thanks to jc for putting me onto this short, yet relevant talk from venerable Gunaratna



Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Is jhana synonymous for satipatthana?

Postby Ben » Sun May 02, 2010 1:47 am

Nice talk,thanks for posting the video url, Retro!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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