Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
- christopher:::
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Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I've asked this question before, over at the Grey Forum, though not in poll form. And i don't mean to sound judgmental by asking this. High goals and perfectionistic attitudes can be extremely helpful in dhamma practice.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I fail to see how one could take it too seriously
The thing is i dont think we have the buddhist equivalent of the easter and xmas christian here in the west, the way they might in the east.
The thing is i dont think we have the buddhist equivalent of the easter and xmas christian here in the west, the way they might in the east.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
- retrofuturist
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Greetings Chris:::,
Do you think "perfectionistic" infers "overarchiever" and vice versa?
Metta,
Retro.
Do you think "perfectionistic" infers "overarchiever" and vice versa?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
- christopher:::
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Really? Buddhism is much more then holidays. Many Westerners seem to take their dhamma practice very seriously, like the Whos in Whoville...m0rl0ck wrote:I fail to see how one could take it too seriously
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Chris:::,
Do you think "perfectionistic" infers "overarchiever" and vice versa?
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
- Goofaholix
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I'm not sure how to answer as there are several ways this question could be interpreted (as is usual with polls), here's a few;
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers compared with western non-Buddhists?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers compared with non-western Buddhists?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers when they come to Buddhism, and presumably grow out of it when they realise they can't overachieve their way to nibbana?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers in attitude despite underachieving and failing to achieve perfection?
Do western Buddhists achieve, and overachieve, perfection and the other objectives of Buddhism?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers in regards to how they approach Buddhism?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers in all aspects of their lives?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers compared with western non-Buddhists?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers compared with non-western Buddhists?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers when they come to Buddhism, and presumably grow out of it when they realise they can't overachieve their way to nibbana?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers in attitude despite underachieving and failing to achieve perfection?
Do western Buddhists achieve, and overachieve, perfection and the other objectives of Buddhism?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers in regards to how they approach Buddhism?
Are western Buddhists perfectionistic overachievers in all aspects of their lives?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Sorry Chris, I'm still trying to get over "Theravadins are grim killjoys"
I'll have to get back to you on this one.
In perpetual cheerlessness,
Ben
I'll have to get back to you on this one.
In perpetual cheerlessness,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- christopher:::
- Posts: 1327
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Sorry Ben...
Is that helpful?
BTW, i know this is difficult to answer, and that my initial question sounds a bit "loaded" to begin with... the purpose was less to get a definitive "correct" view but to see the range of perceptions people may hold about this....
Well, i was thinking in terms of as compared with the Average Eastern Buddhist, are [most] Western Buddhists [that you've come into contact with] more Perfectionistic and (as compared to the Eastern Buddhists) more focused on (and/or desiring of) achieving complete liberation?Goofaholix wrote:I'm not sure how to answer as there are several ways this question could be interpreted (as is usual with polls), here's a few...
Is that helpful?
BTW, i know this is difficult to answer, and that my initial question sounds a bit "loaded" to begin with... the purpose was less to get a definitive "correct" view but to see the range of perceptions people may hold about this....
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
- retrofuturist
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Greetings Christopher:::,
The extent to which your theory may be true, may actually have more to do with whether one is "born Buddhist" or makes a conscious decision to "choose Buddhism" amidst an array of competing options.
Metta,
Retro.
The extent to which your theory may be true, may actually have more to do with whether one is "born Buddhist" or makes a conscious decision to "choose Buddhism" amidst an array of competing options.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I was joking, Chris!!!christopher::: wrote:Sorry Ben...
I have to admit that I don't currently know any asian Buddhists except for those who visit us here on DW. What I do remember is something Ven Pesala said a couple of years ago. I think he was bemoaning that some members of the ex-pat Burmese community that provide dana to him didn't take to meditation with the zeal that he would have liked.christopher::: wrote: Well, i was thinking in terms of as compared with the Average Eastern Buddhist, are [most] Western Buddhists [that you've come into contact with] more Perfectionistic and (as compared to the Eastern Buddhists) more focused on (and/or desiring of) achieving complete liberation?"
When I was living in Melbourne two of my colleagues were asian Buddhists and I couldn't believe the quiet sincerity that they approached their practice. It was inspiring.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- appicchato
- Posts: 1602
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I'm leaning this way too Ben...especially when I see some of the topics that appear here at DhammaWheel...Ben wrote:In perpetual cheerlessness,
- Goofaholix
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I figured that was one of the likely candidates. The trouble is if we are talking about the average religious or merit making or superstitious or cultural eastern Buddhist I think there is no comparison as the practice and the goals are very different, so not a fair question.christopher::: wrote:Well, i was thinking in terms of as compared with the Average Eastern Buddhist, are [most] Western Buddhists [that you've come into contact with] more Perfectionistic and (as compared to the Eastern Buddhists) more focused on (and/or desiring of) achieving complete liberation?
However you could compare western and eastern practice or path oriented Buddhists with each other, then that would be a fair question assuming there are enough people on the board who have practiced both in the west and in the east to get a feeling on this.
As retro mentioned the difference is often to do with whether you were born into Buddhism or made a concious decision to become a Buddhist, but remember a lot of the most famous teachers were born as Buddhists.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
- christopher:::
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- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Venerable, i apologize for contributing to your shift of mood. The topic title, poll question and responses can all be changed.appicchato wrote:I'm leaning this way too Ben...especially when I see some of the topics that appear here at DhammaWheel...Ben wrote:In perpetual cheerlessness,
Do others here have suggestions for a more "skillful" wording of this topic and poll question, that might prompt insight and reflection, rather then cheerlessness and/or a reduction of equanimity?
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
- appicchato
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Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Not to worry friend...I'm not singling you out here, not at all...and please don't change anything on my account...possibly it's my well worn feeling that I've expressed here many times that Caucasians (Westerners, of which I am one) tend to have a need to dissect everything, I do mean everything, to a fare-thee-well...and not necessarily (it seems to me) in the interest of knowledge, or insight...
Please don't mind me...sometimes I let slip and start typing when I should hold my mud...
Be well...
Please don't mind me...sometimes I let slip and start typing when I should hold my mud...
Be well...
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
Dear Bhante
metta
Ben
Your insights are valuable and give us all pause for thought.appicchato wrote:Not to worry friend...I'm not singling you out here, not at all...and please don't change anything on my account...possibly it's my well worn feeling that I've expressed here many times that Caucasians (Westerners, of which I am one) tend to have a need to dissect everything, I do mean everything, to a fare-thee-well...and not necessarily (it seems to me) in the interest of knowledge, or insight...
Please don't mind me...sometimes I let slip and start typing when I should hold my mud...
Be well...
metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Goofaholix
- Posts: 4018
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: Are Western Buddhists Perfectionistic Overachievers?
I think this is very true, but please nobody setup a poll on this one.appicchato wrote:
Possibly it's my well worn feeling that I've expressed here many times that Caucasians (Westerners, of which I am one) tend to have a need to dissect everything, I do mean everything, to a fare-thee-well...and not necessarily (it seems to me) in the interest of knowledge, or insight...
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah