Shaving the head

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
5Khandas
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Shaving the head

Post by 5Khandas »

Hello everybody,

I'd like to ordain as a monk at Wat Pah Nanachat some day. But now I became a bit anxious, because...

I went to a dermatologist, and it turned out, that I have several birthmarks on my head (naevus pigmentosus). There is no problem with them, there is no sign that they will turn into melanoma.
But it is definitely not advisable to shave my head, because if they injured it can be dangerous. So I can’t shave my head completely, not even with a hair clipper, because it can injure them too.

What can I do now? Is it an obstacle to my ordination? Or is it possible to cut my hair to a minimum size with a hair clipper or something like that?
I’ve read this in the Buddhist Monastic Code:
(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .ch01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Unless ill — e.g., he has a sore on his head — a bhikkhu may not use scissors to cut his hair or have it cut. The question of using electric razors to shave the head is a controversial one. Because their cutting action — even in rotary shavers — is like that of scissors, many Communities will not allow their use in shaving the head.
Is it possible to take it as a ‘sore’, so I can use scissors? What does the Community of Wat Pah Nanachat think about that (I mean do they use electric razors)?

Please help, because I’m getting a bit mad with it... :rolleye:

Metta :anjali:
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Ben
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Ben »

Hi 5K
Have you tried contacting Wat Pah Nanachat? That might be the way to go.
And I'm sure there will be a solution to your situation.
All the best,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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cooran
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by cooran »

Hello 5Khandas,

I was talking to Ajahn Jac (an Aussie monastic - not sure of his full name) at the Mitra Conference - I went to ask him why his head appeared to have a very short growth of hair and why he seemed to have an equallly short beard. His reply was that the Vinaya allows two knuckles length of hair on the head and face. He reminded me that in the Buddha's time hair-cutting implements were rather crude and couldn't get much shorter than that.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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5Khandas
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Shaving the head

Post by 5Khandas »

Yes, I'll soon send a letter to WPN, in which I mention that, but you know they answer very slowly...
Ben wrote:And I'm sure there will be a solution to your situation.
I hope so too! :D

I know that the Vinaya allows some hair, but as it is in the Buddhist Monastic Code:
The hair of the head should not be worn long. It should be shaved at least every two months or when the hair has grown to a length of two fingerbreadths — whichever occurs first, says the Commentary.
So this two fingerbreadhts is just the maximum length, nevertheless they have to shave it regularly.

OK, anyway, thank you, I calmed down a bit :)

Metta :anjali:
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Alexei
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Alexei »

5Khandas wrote:I went to a dermatologist, and it turned out, that I have several birthmarks on my head (naevus pigmentosus).
Hello 5Khandas,

Is it possible to ablate them? It's probably good way out.
5Khandas
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by 5Khandas »

I'm not sure, but I'll go to the dermatologist again anyway, so perhaps I'll ask her. But for all I know, they don't like to ablate birthmarks, if not necessary (if they don't seem to turn into melanoma, for example). Also there are about 9 on my head - I don't know what the doctor would say, if I'd like to have all of them ablated.
Anyway, thanks for your idea!

Metta :anjali:
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Goofaholix
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Goofaholix »

I would think this almost certainly rules out wat Pah Nanachaat, and possibly Theravada ordination in general.

You could try asking at different monasteries, you'd probably get better advice contacting one of the western branch manasteries.

I'd think about going Mahayana, or looking for a way to practice long term as a laymen rather than at wat Pah Nanachaat.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Kenshou
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Kenshou »

Someone would be denied ordination for not being able to shave the head quite completely bald?

Really?
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adosa
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by adosa »

Kenshou wrote:Someone would be denied ordination for not being able to shave the head quite completely bald?

Really?


My thoughts exactly. Talk about clinging to rites and rituals.


adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
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Goofaholix
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Goofaholix »

adosa wrote:My thoughts exactly. Talk about clinging to rites and rituals.
Indeed.

Luckily ordination as a Theravadin Monk is not necessarily a prerequisite for enlightenment.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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appicchato
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by appicchato »

Even the casual observer will see that, with the rarest of exceptions, we're (humans) not anything to write home to mom about...
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Wind
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Wind »

cooran wrote:Hello 5Khandas,

I was talking to Ajahn Jac (an Aussie monastic - not sure of his full name) at the Mitra Conference - I went to ask him why his head appeared to have a very short growth of hair and why he seemed to have an equallly short beard. His reply was that the Vinaya allows two knuckles length of hair on the head and face. He reminded me that in the Buddha's time hair-cutting implements were rather crude and couldn't get much shorter than that.

with metta
Chris
Really? Two knuckles length of hair on the head and face? Which means you can basically grow a beard.
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Goofaholix
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by Goofaholix »

I found this on Access to insight http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .ch01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hair of the head. The hair of the head should not be worn long. It should be shaved at least every two months or when the hair has grown to a length of two fingerbreadths — whichever occurs first, says the Commentary. In Thailand there is the custom that all bhikkhus shave their heads on the same day, the day before the full moon, so that the Community can present a uniform appearance. Although this is not obligatory, a bhikkhu who does not follow the custom tends to stand out from his fellows.
In thailand you're up against local custom more than the Vinaya in this regard.

And this
Unless ill — e.g., he has a sore on his head — a bhikkhu may not use scissors to cut his hair or have it cut. The question of using electric razors to shave the head is a controversial one. Because their cutting action — even in rotary shavers — is like that of scissors, many Communities will not allow their use in shaving the head.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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retrofuturist
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

That's odd... why on earth would electric razors be taboo?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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appicchato
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Re: Shaving the head

Post by appicchato »

It's a crazy world Paul...as I'm sure you're aware of...or scissors? (as opposed to an electric razor)...why no scissors?...and (in Thailand) shaving your eyebrows?...eyebrows?...I 'trim' mine, to keep the peace, but don't shave them...
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