Past lives

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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pink_trike
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Re: Past lives

Post by pink_trike »

I've heard lots of people talk intimately about their "past lives" (prolly because I've lived in California for more than 3 decades, and because of my work as a psychotherapist)...but not once have I ever heard talk of anyone previously being an insurance salesman living in a small town in Mississippi in the 1940s, a grub-hunter in Angola in the 60s, a sex slave in Cambodia in the 70s, a 12 hour a day factory worker in Romania in the 80s, or a housewife in Amsterdam in the 90s in their previous lives, etc...or anything remotely similar...no ordinary people "past lives" - let alone animal, reptile, plant, or mineral lives. Most people's "past lives" stories sadly always seem to resemble characters in children's books or Hollywood epic movies...Disney-esque characters, never ordinary people. Never people who lived bitter, hard, short lives of hunger, hard work, violence, disease, and early death (surely the greater majority of all "past human lives" on this planet). I'm not convinced that "past life" recall is anything other than overactive, confused, narcissistic, compensational imagination that is delusionally mistaken as "memory".

And, on the other hand...much of what I have experienced on the path of attempted awakening in this life has profoundly seemed like _remembering_ something that I once knew, but forgot. This life has always seemed like waking from amnesia. When I experience dharma teachings, and when I encounter profound wisdom from other pre-modern sources, it is as if I am remembering once familiar knowledge/experience rather than encountering new info. This recognition process has been an integral sorting mechanism as I've drifted though the myriad oceans of so-called "spiritual" crap available to us here on the West Coast of the failing empire. If it doesn't feel like remembering, I don't pay much attention to it. But, this doesn't necessarily point at "re-birth" either...it could just be another brain/body-produced memory/sensation (humans are crazy...what's to stop our minds from manufacturing "past life" memories? Or sensations of pre-experience?)...or it might just be a simple connecting with the "noosphere"...the collective consciousness - if this is the case, we could be accessing any human's noosphere-stored consciousness and mistaking it as our own experience.

So, re: rebirth...I'm comfortable with "I don't know and I don't care". That's enough for me. I can't think of any reason to adopt some sort of "belief" about it. Heck, the whole "rebirth" thing might just be a pernicious, enduring brain meme that we'd do good to rise above. I do my best to prepare the ground for conscious re-momenting. It seems to me, in my ignorance, that preparing the ground for the next moment or the next life involves exactly the same process. Preparing for the next moment is the best I can do...it's a full time job.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Past lives

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings pink_trike,
pink_trike wrote:I do my best to prepare the ground for conscious re-momenting. It seems to me, in my ignorance, that preparing the ground for the next moment or the next life involves exactly the same process. Preparing for the next moment is the best I can do...it's a full time job.
Very well said.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Annapurna
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Re: Past lives

Post by Annapurna »

TheDhamma wrote:"Monks, suppose that this great earth were totally covered with water, and a man were to toss a yoke with a single hole there. A wind from the east would push it west, a wind from the west would push it east. A wind from the north would push it south, a wind from the south would push it north. And suppose a blind sea-turtle were there. It would come to the surface once every one hundred years. Now what do you think: would that blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole?"

"It would be a sheer coincidence, lord, that the blind sea-turtle, coming to the surface once every one hundred years, would stick his neck into the yoke with a single hole."

"It's likewise a sheer coincidence that one obtains the human state. "

Samyutta Nikaya 56.48

The blind sea turtle is a good simile showing how hard it is to obtain human rebirth. I heard once that a goldfish only has a memory of about 3 seconds. I imagine most other animals don't have that long of a memory either (except for elephants). If we have done all / most of our past lives as animals, we cannot expect to remember them much or at all.
If you ever owned a cat, and took her to a vet.... and she hated it... and you want to take her there again... you will find out that a cat remembers things throughout her whole life...

I had to go to another vet with her.

This one she liked to "visit". :roll:
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kc2dpt
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Re: Past lives

Post by kc2dpt »

Dhammanando wrote:much of it consisted in counselling Christians who for some reason felt themselves to be Jews.
Need some pun on "coming out of the closet"...
...
Coming out of the sukkah?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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kc2dpt
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Re: Past lives

Post by kc2dpt »

retrofuturist wrote:
pink_trike wrote:I do my best to prepare the ground for conscious re-momenting. It seems to me, in my ignorance, that preparing the ground for the next moment or the next life involves exactly the same process. Preparing for the next moment is the best I can do...it's a full time job.
Very well said.
I agree.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
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GrahamR
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Past lives

Post by GrahamR »

Placid-pool wrote:There was a fad back in the 80s or 90s ... (there you go, memory of this life gone already) where people got hypnotised to remember their past lives .... I thought then and I still think it .. rubbish.
There was an intersting programme on UK TV over the Christmas period when this was demonstrated by Tony Robinson. (Baldric from Blackadder) It seemed very convincing, especially to him, but the soldier he appeared to be could not be found in any army record!
With metta :bow:
Graham
With metta :bow:
Graham
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Past lives

Post by Ceisiwr »

There have been some interesting cases however, the work done by Professor Ian Stevenson, not saying its concrete evidence, far from it but was interesting work that he done on the subject.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
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Justin
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Re: Past lives

Post by Justin »

Dhammanando wrote:Hi Justin,
Justin wrote:I'm hoping someone can help me out, given that I still have much to learn. Does anyone know where in the Tipitaka the Buddha addresses the question of why humans can't remember their past lives,
He doesn't, but the Pali commentators blame it on the prolonged dullness of mind during gestation. Beings of immediate arising (opapatika) such as devas and pretas all have a native ability to recall their former life, whereas most humans and animals do not.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu
Thank you, Venerable Sir! This certainly helps. :namaste:

Like several others on this thread, I'm ambivalent about the usefulness of speculating on one's past lives, and I recall a few sutta references to the effect that stream-enterers no longer ponder "Was I in the past? Was I not in the past? How was I?", et cetera. (Definitely a lesson I could profit from). I was curious about the mechanics of forgetting, though, since it's something I've wondered about from time to time, and I'm grateful for everyone's input!

With metta,
Justin
Cultivate generosity, the life of peace,
and a mind of boundless love.

Itivuttuka 16
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Past lives

Post by jcsuperstar »

i was thinking about this today, and the wave of american buddhists my age and around my age. whose births coinsides with a wave of deaths of asian buddhists all killed by americans, and the idea that one's last thoughts or frame of mind condition the next birth. and though theres no way of knowing this, it's somewhat interesting to ponder...
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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