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Historicity of the Buddha - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Historicity of the Buddha

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:40 pm


Bankei
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Bankei » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:07 pm

If you are interested in the dates of the Buddha check out 3 huge volumes of the proceedings of a conference on this very topic: When Did The Buddha Live? : The Controversy on the Dating of the Historical Buddha--Selected Papers Based on a Symposium held under the Auspices of the Academy of Sciences in Gottingen/edited by Heinz Bechert, 1995.
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Bankei

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oceanmen
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby oceanmen » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:56 pm

in simple english, and this is but a subjective opinion that may be right or wrong

perhaps every enlightened person in history (buddha/prophet)
went through an experience that can not be transmitted to the masses

why? because it is
1.too complex and
2.it was his experience not anyone else

these people have put a simple step by step approach for the masses,
to practice and discover the truth of the dhammas, and of course there have been inflitrations,
in every culture, to match the local traditions, hence the diffrent varitions,
but with true and honest intention i think it is possible to rediscover the truth of all dhamma that we all have in common

metta
:namaste:

Paññāsikhara
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:23 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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retrofuturist
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:46 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

plwk
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby plwk » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:53 am


Bankei
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Bankei » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:14 am

But what evidence could there be to prove that the person now known as the Buddha once existed?

Possibly the closest we can get are the early inscriptions of Asoka or archaeological evidence of early monastic communities or stupas.

Bankei
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Bankei

PeterB
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby PeterB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:47 am

I would suggest that the best evidence is the Suttas. If the historical Buddha did not exist, whose thoughts are they ?
Clearly they are the thoughts of an Enlightened One, unless you can explain the origin of the doctrine of Dependant Origination, or show it occuring elsewhere other than in the Suttas.
So you are left with the problem of explaining this other unknown Enlightened One who is not the Buddha...

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Kare
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Kare » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:59 am

Mettāya,
Kåre

PeterB
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby PeterB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:27 pm

:smile:

There is a similar discussion in some (small ) circles about Shakespeare, Kare, to whom of course the reply is, as most of the plays bear the unmistakable imprint of the same genius, then the plays of Shakespeare must have been written by another Tudor genius calling himself Shakespeare... :tongue:

barryevans
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby barryevans » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:21 pm

Thanks again everyone for the responses. Again, I'm surprised at some of the comments (I'm new to this forum) saying, in essence, "Don't ask questions!" This is headed as a discussion forum, hence my surprise.

I'm no wiser after all this, I'm afraid. David, I do think comparing the wild (hundreds of years) tradition of Buddha's birth date with that of Jesus (born between 7 BCE and 6 CE, I think all scholars agree) and Muhammed (570 CE) is a bit of a stretch.

Dhamma (Pali), Dharma (Sanskrit)--are interchangeable, no?

Let's see--cherrypicking Asoka's edicts? Have you actually read them all? It's just that the two that specifically mention the Buddha are totally different in style from the others. It's really very obvious when you read them, I'm not trying to convince anyone, the edicts speak for themselves.

I don't have any investment in whether there was a historic Buddha, I'll go on doing my practice just the same. But I am very curious why it's so hard to find answers to the question of origins.

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bodom
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby bodom » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:39 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Goofaholix
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:37 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:23 pm


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SDC
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby SDC » Thu May 06, 2010 7:07 pm


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cooran
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby cooran » Thu May 06, 2010 8:29 pm

Hello barry, all,

The Buddha always told people not to take his word, not to just believe because learned teachers taught something ~ he said "ehipassiko" ~

Ehipassiko

Ehipassiko constitutes an open invitation to all to come and see, to inspect, to scrutinize and if need be, even to criticize the Dhamma before accepting it because there is nothing mythical or mysterious about it.

The Dhamma is pure and crystal clear. It is as pure as solid gold. The Buddha Himself declared: "Do not accept what I say through mere respect towards me. Just as purity of gold is ascertained by melting or rubbing on a touchstone, likewise the Dhamma should be accepted only after very close scrutiny." This fearless assertion of allowing the teaching to be closely examined marks the greatness of the Buddha and the unwavering truth of the sublime Dhamma.
http://www.purifymind.com/Introduction.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Bankei
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Bankei » Sat May 08, 2010 9:45 am

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Bankei

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat May 08, 2010 10:49 am

it is a fact that some person lived at some time in history that said or wrote the things we now have as buddhism if there was not we would not have those things, therefor there has to be a person whose these thoughts belonged to, right? there's your buddha.
now, we can look at history to try to pinpoint a time when that person lived, and it seems the consensus is around 2600 years ago. what else exactly would you want?
there are people alive today who do not even know what year they were born in ,let alone the day or month, they are just told, "oh it was the rainy season" or "this or that event happened around the same time" etc . history is not as universally coveted as we would sometimes like it to be especially in some non western cultures.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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SDC
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby SDC » Sat May 08, 2010 2:11 pm


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oceanmen
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Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby oceanmen » Sun May 09, 2010 5:42 am

every belief system and filosofy has somehow been infiltrated
if we had all the scientific proof that buddha said this and only this and no more,
if we had proof that this is fake, and that is authentic, then there would be no division
sadly even buddhism as christianity, islam and judism all have sects and divisions
which proofs that there has been infiltration, intended or not is not the question,
the point is that some truth need to be investigated by your personal experience
with honest investigation we can find it back!!


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