when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:42 pm

"Know thy not-self."
Aristotle mk.II

:tongue:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Nibbida » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:01 am

"Dropping Keys" by Hafiz:

The small person
Builds cages for everyone
She
Sees.
Instead, the sage,
Who needs to duck her head,
When the moon is low,
Can be found dropping keys, all night long
For the beautiful,
Rowdy,
Prisoners.




(Maybe I'm a closet Sufi)
"Dispositions of the mind, like limbs of the body, acquire strength by exercise." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:47 am

Hafiz rocks...
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 am

Speaking about the moon...


WITH THAT MOON LANGUAGE


    Admit something:



    Everyone you see, you say to them, "Love me."



    Of course you do not do this out loud, otherwise
    someone would call the cops.



    Still, though, think about this, this great pull in us to connect.



    Why not become the one who lives with a
    full moon in each eye that is
    always saying,

    with that sweet moon language,
    what every other eye in
    this world is
    dying to
    hear?
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby oceanmen » Sun May 09, 2010 6:03 am

no aversions, and no craving, and no illusions of ego(arrogance), in koran:

لِّكَيْلَا تَأْسَوْا عَلَىٰ مَا فَاتَكُمْ وَلَا تَفْرَحُوا بِمَا آتَاكُمْ ۗ وَاللَّهُ لَا يُحِبُّ كُلَّ مُخْتَالٍ فَخُورٍ

In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by,
nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. For Allah loveth not any vainglorious boaster,-
(Al-Hadid, Chapter #57, Verse #23)
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon May 10, 2010 3:39 pm

jcsuperstar wrote:why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right?

seems silly, why would i care?


After listening to a talk where the presenter apparently put freud, jung, and buddhism in a blender. Id say at about the same time Stephen Batchelor did. I cant tell whether he is a psychologist disguised as a buddhist or the other way round.

Id much rather have my buddhism polluted with rumi than freud tho.
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Mon May 10, 2010 4:44 pm

..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....? :thinking:

Peter? :sage:

Metta,

Anna
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby m0rl0ck » Mon May 10, 2010 6:57 pm

Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....? :thinking:

Peter? :sage:

Metta,

Anna



Maybe so, but if you are presenting a dharma talk you need to decide where you are speaking from before you start. In addition freuds simple vision is not in great repute with the rest of the so-called science these days and imo has no place in a dharma talk. I have only heard the one talk by SB and maybe he was having an off day or something, but rather than worry about Rumi being quoted, its alot more serious imo when someone like batchelor presents himself as a teacher and then confuses the dharma with questionable psychological theories.
There is no comfort without pain; thus
we define salvation through suffering.
-- Cato
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby bodom » Mon May 10, 2010 7:32 pm

Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....? :thinking:

Peter? :sage:

Metta,

Anna


Mark Epstein.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Epstein

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 11, 2010 6:04 am

Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....?


What exactly speaks against it? As far as I understand it, certain professions don't go well with Buddhism, such as executioner, arms dealer, drug dealer, pimp, slaughterer, and such, but I don't think that psychologists fall into that category.

jcsuperstar wrote:why is it that modern teachers feel the need to have quotes by non-buddhists and mystics from other religions in their books as some sort of "proof" that what the Buddha said is right? seems silly, why would i care?


- because they might want to engage a secular audience.
- because they might feel that third-party corroboration is useful.
- because they might want to bring across a point in a specific context.
- because they might feel a particular phrasing was lucid and clear.
- because they have personal associations with the quoted teachings.

There are plenty of good reasons. It also helps to remember that Buddhism has no patent on truth. Truth has been expressed in the context of many different teachings. Some of these teachings are in agreement with Buddhism in important aspects. But perhaps the most important reason is that people who are intimately familiar with Buddhism form a minority on this planet and that one cannot assume this familiarity when speaking to a global audience.

Cheers, Thomas
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby PeterB » Tue May 11, 2010 6:38 am

Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....? :thinking:

Peter? :sage:

Metta,

Anna

I am not a psychologist Anna dear...I am a psychiatrist and psychotherapist...just for the record.
:smile:

Of course I have psychologist colleagues and use their expertise all the time.

:anjali:
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby cooran » Tue May 11, 2010 6:51 am

Hello all,

Where did Rumi go??

The Buddha here tells the story of a king who had six blind men gathered together to examine an elephant.
"When the blind men had each felt a part of the elephant, the king went to each of them and said to each: 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?".
The six blind men assert the elephant is either like a pot (the blind man who felt the elephants' head), wicket basket (ear), ploughshare (tusk), plough (trunk), granary (body), pillar (foot), mortar (back), pestle (tail) or brush (tip of the tail).
The men cannot agree with one another and come to blows over the question of what an elephant really is like, and this delights the king. The Buddha ends the story of the king and compares the six blind men to preachers and scholars who are blind and ignorant and hold to their own views: "Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus." The Buddha then speaks the following verse:
O how they cling and wrangle, some who claim
For preacher and monk the honored name!
For, quarreling, each to his view they cling.
Such folk see only one side of a thing.
............

Rumi, the 13th Century Persian poet and teacher of Sufism, included it in his Masnavi. In his retelling, "The Elephant in the Dark", some Hindus bring an elephant to be exhibited in a dark room. A number of men feel the elephant in the dark and, depending upon where they touch it, they believe the elephant to be like a water spout (trunk), a fan (ear), a pillar (leg) and a throne (back).

Rumi uses this story as an example of the limits of individual perception:
The sensual eye is just like the palm of the hand. The palm has not the means of covering the whole of the beast.

Rumi doesn't present a resolution to the conflict in his version, but states:
The eye of the Sea is one thing and the foam another. Let the foam go, and gaze with the eye of the Sea. Day and night foam-flecks are flung from the sea: of amazing! You behold the foam but not the Sea. We are like boats dashing together; our eyes are darkened, yet we are in clear water.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant


with metta
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Tue May 11, 2010 10:17 am

m0rl0ck wrote:
Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....? :thinking:

Peter? :sage:

Metta,

Anna



Maybe so, but if you are presenting a dharma talk you need to decide where you are speaking from before you start.


ok. Fair enough. I just thought that the Dhamma itself appears like psychology to me...you know what I mean? :thinking:

Hard to separate, or no? But then I'm not so familiar with most psychological theories... :shrug:

Metta,

Anna
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Tue May 11, 2010 10:48 am



Thank you Bodom.

Something like this has been interesting me for a while.

I like the quote:

all babies are born with that; they instinctively love their caretakers. So if we can find that again, then our relationships will take care of themselves.


Hi, all,

Wonderful. That is actually a thought that has been on my mind lately a lot.

I'll explain why:

I am watching BB, Big brother, the German version. Please don't jump top negative conclusions, anybody, but it's far more interesting than studying gorillas in the mountains, you see.

And my personal "hobby" is this:

I compare their behaviour to the Dhamma.

It is my theory, that those whose behaviour is the "noblest", stay in the longest and almost always win in the end.

This is fascinating for me to watch.

Right now, we are having the most successful episode since several years, due to one man: Klaus.

He is the noblest in character, (imo) selfless, team player, sacrifices own comfort so the others can have more, disciplined, absolutely honest, compassionete, protects the weak, is totally fearless, respects his mother, but:

He criticizes others. A pretty petite girl was mobbed by the other chicks, and so he took her under his wings and told the others straight in the face:

"Look, it's quite simple: if you don't stop harrassing her, you'll get real problems with me, so choose wisely. "

Of course they hate him after such announcements and plot against him, and badmouth him, and insult him, but he stays strong. He is like a Rhino that can wander alone.

So, at times he really shames and annoys them, and on the other hand you could say he is doing this:

76. Should one find a man who points out faults and who reproves, let him follow such a wise and sagacious person as one would a guide to hidden treasure. It is always better, and never worse, to cultivate such an association.

77. Let him admonish, instruct and shield one from wrong; he, indeed, is dear to the good and detestable to the evil.


Interesting is, that the people in the house vote him onto the exit list each time, while the audience always votes him "in". :twothumbsup:

It is a thought I am investigating:

if "people" out there know, what is right.

If there is an "innate goodness and nobility in all of us, " and I tend to say yes.

Actually, I am convinced of this.

We're all good, somewhere, inside.

And bad as well. But we "know" what is right, deep down inside. Only problem: Most of us are only good to loved ones, like Hitler to his dog Blondie...

But I see that the people reward those who are good to all.

Metta,

Anna
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Tue May 11, 2010 10:52 am

Pannapetar wrote:
Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....?


What exactly speaks against it?

Cheers, Thomas


Imo, nothing. :anjali:
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Re: when did Rumi become a Buddhist?

Postby Annapurna » Tue May 11, 2010 1:21 pm

PeterB wrote:
Annapurna wrote:..... can people be Buddhists and psychologists at the same time....? :thinking:

Peter? :sage:

Metta,

Anna

I am not a psychologist Anna dear...I am a psychiatrist and psychotherapist...just for the record.
:smile:

Of course I have psychologist colleagues and use their expertise all the time.

:anjali:


I know, Peter. :smile: I'm sorry if I was unclear. I was too lazy to think about how to say it right. :embarassed:

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