Practise vs suttra

[Individual]

All,

I have a question to all.

I am buddhist and i believed one buddhist must do personal cultivation. That is important. To follow the 5 precepts and 8 noble truths.
I am a man who is not well vserse in suttra at all but i like reading Buddha simple short quotes and great monks quotes, i will try to put in practicse.
I like those tudong monks trainning in North east thailand with AC Mun line down. They practise in mindfulness and mind awareness.

A group of buddhism friends then told me that by doing cultrivation alone is not enough. one must be well verse in suttra.
that also applies to two monk masters reply too. One told me to practise yet the other told me to read sutta...

My feels is : Are By knowing the suttra alone, is that important??
I am a man who only goes for practise and not theory.
anyway, i a begineer.

am i wrong??
by well verse in suttra but without praticsing, can one get enlighten?

hope to hear more views ya.

hahahahaha

sadhu sadhu sadhu.

From what I've seen, in order to attain enlightenment, one must overcome certain "fetters." Reading suttas might be a part of that (reading suttas is a form of dhamma practice), but it also might not be. A good question to ask is: Is there anyone in the suttas who attained enlightenment who also was probably not well-versed in the suttas?

The Buddha's teaching is called a "doctrine & discipline" (dhamma-vinaya). Regarding the dichotomy between meditation and studying Dhamma, this sutta seems to suggest that early Buddhists tended to focus primarily on one or the other, for whatever reason. There might be a reason why it is impractical to devote oneself both a meditative practice and a practice of sutta scholarship and devotion.

[Peter]

I think somewhere in the Canon there's a simile of a flower with no fragrance, which communicates a similar message.

There is also, I think, the simile of the man who counts another man's cows which points to a similar message.

[Peter]

just because you can quote from scripture doesn't mean you know the meaning of the words, or just because you can quote the scripture doesn't mean the meaning is not misrepresented.

This is a very good point. It is why I feel finding a teacher is so important. Just reading books by yourself can easily result in "misreading the map". Then one may practice but will be practicing in the wrong way.

Although one may argue that if one pays attention then one will eventually see they are practicing in the wrong way, such a one may conclude they have misinterpreted the teachings but such a one may instead conclude that the teachings don't work and then they give up.

[Peter]

Sorry for being vague and apologies to anyone who took it the wrong way. I would never ever dissuade anyone from studying the teachings and am sorry i am being accused of such.

I am sorry I misunderstood you.

[bodom]

I think somewhere in the Canon there's a simile of a flower with no fragrance, which communicates a similar message.

There is also, I think, the simile of the man who counts another man's cows which points to a similar message.

I believe you mean this passage peter?

19. Much though he recites the sacred texts, but acts not accordingly, that heedless man is like a cowherd who only counts the cows of others -- he does not partake of the blessings of the holy life.

Dhammapada 1
The Pairs

[bodom]

Sorry for being vague and apologies to anyone who took it the wrong way. I would never ever dissuade anyone from studying the teachings and am sorry i am being accused of such.

I am sorry I misunderstood you.

Not a problem whatsoever.

[Cittasanto]

just because you can quote from scripture doesn't mean you know the meaning of the words, or just because you can quote the scripture doesn't mean the meaning is not misrepresented.

This is a very good point. It is why I feel finding a teacher is so important. Just reading books by yourself can easily result in "misreading the map". Then one may practice but will be practicing in the wrong way.

Although one may argue that if one pays attention then one will eventually see they are practicing in the wrong way, such a one may conclude they have misinterpreted the teachings but such a one may instead conclude that the teachings don't work and then they give up.

It could also be argued the only sutta worth reading is the mind!
and searching out a teacher for guidance now and then is just as important, to make sure we are on track.

[Peter]

It could also be argued the only sutta worth reading is the mind!
and searching out a teacher for guidance now and then is just as important, to make sure we are on track.

To me this is just semantics. Whether we read the scriptures ourselves and let it guide our practice or we let a teacher guide our practice and that teacher has read the scriptures and lets it guide his teaching... still we are relying on the teachings as recorded in the scriptures. In the first case directly and in the second case indirectly.

[Cittasanto]

It could also be argued the only sutta worth reading is the mind!
and searching out a teacher for guidance now and then is just as important, to make sure we are on track.

To me this is just semantics. Whether we read the scriptures ourselves and let it guide our practice or we let a teacher guide our practice and that teacher has read the scriptures and lets it guide his teaching... still we are relying on the teachings as recorded in the scriptures. In the first case directly and in the second case indirectly.

is that so?
and why did you study what I said if you found it so?
Friendship is the whole of the path.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Manapa,

Friendship is the whole of the path.

Friendship however in the context of that quote however is not referring to a "teacher"... rather a Kalyana-mitta, a spiritual friend. There is for example in the suttas, talk of samatha-experts helping out vipassana-novices and vice versa does have sutta support.

Metta,
Retro.

[Cittasanto]

Greetings Manapa,

Friendship is the whole of the path.

Friendship however in the context of that quote however is not referring to a "teacher"... rather a Kalyana-mitta, a spiritual friend. There is for example in the suttas, talk of samatha-experts helping out vipassana-novices and vice versa does have sutta support.

Metta,
Retro.

and what is a spiritual friend if not someone who helps us cultivate the noble eightfold path?

our relationships with others may at times be equal, and at other times be more of a student/teacher role. if we look at the first two teachers the Buddha had they went from teacher disciple to peers, and if they had been alive after his enlightenment back to student teacher.

[Danny]

All,

I have a question to all.

I am buddhist and i believed one buddhist must do personal cultivation. That is important. To follow the 5 precepts and 8 noble truths.
I am a man who is not well vserse in suttra at all but i like reading Buddha simple short quotes and great monks quotes, i will try to put in practicse.
I like those tudong monks trainning in North east thailand with AC Mun line down. They practise in mindfulness and mind awareness.

A group of buddhism friends then told me that by doing cultrivation alone is not enough. one must be well verse in suttra.
that also applies to two monk masters reply too. One told me to practise yet the other told me to read sutta...

My feels is : Are By knowing the suttra alone, is that important??
I am a man who only goes for practise and not theory.
anyway, i a begineer.

am i wrong??
by well verse in suttra but without praticsing, can one get enlighten?

hope to hear more views ya.

hahahahaha

sadhu sadhu sadhu.

Maybe, to put it another way, if you have a very busy week ahead and only time do do meditate ór to study, not both, what would you do? I would meditate, but I already read a lot to put in practice. Maybe for others it's different. If I have plenty of time I need to read to keep me motivated to go on the cushion.
So I'm not saying not to study, just asking: what would you do in that situation?

Metta,

Danny

[Kare]

A group of buddhism friends then told me that by doing cultrivation alone is not enough. one must be well verse in suttra.
that also applies to two monk masters reply too. One told me to practise yet the other told me to read sutta...

My feels is : Are By knowing the suttra alone, is that important??
I am a man who only goes for practise and not theory.
anyway, i a begineer.

Ask yourself this question: Which foot is more important for walking? Your right foot or your left foot?

[Peter]

Left, definitely. Sometimes I just leave my right foot at home.