Emptiness

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Shonin
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Shonin »

PeterB wrote:I think that one of them is closer to what the Buddha taught as recorded in the Pali Canon, Shonin.
I agree. And that is where my interest in the Nikayas comes from (and in much Theravada too). But reading about a dead sage's understanding is one thing and awakening oneself is another. Also, Gautama Buddha is not the only sage I respect or regard as awakened.

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Pannapetar
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Pannapetar »

PeterB wrote:I think that one of them is closer to what the Buddha taught as recorded in the Pali Canon, Shonin.
I am a Theravadin by choice having looked hard and long at the alternatives.
Have you considered the emptiness of all dhammas?

Is a blue shirt inherently better than a white shirt?

Cheers, Thomas
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Dan74
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Dan74 »

Pannapetar wrote:
PeterB wrote:I think that one of them is closer to what the Buddha taught as recorded in the Pali Canon, Shonin.
I am a Theravadin by choice having looked hard and long at the alternatives.
Have you considered the emptiness of all dhammas?

Is a blue shirt inherently better than a white shirt?

Cheers, Thomas
No. In fact a white shirt is inherently better than a blue shirt, thank you very much.

Tories just won elections in the UK.

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Emptiness

Post by m0rl0ck »

TMingyur wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:Since somebody else started the thread, this qoute from the Cula-suññata Sutta really got my attention when i read it:
Thus he regards it as empty of whatever is not there. Whatever remains, he discerns as present: 'There is this.' And so this, his entry into emptiness, accords with actuality, is undistorted in meaning, pure — superior & unsurpassed.
When the identity of compound things is realized as impermanent and void of own-being and they are seen as "empty of whatever is not there", what remains?
"own-being" and "identity" are different phenomena?
maybe there are better ways to say it but i liked the emphasis of saying it twice :)
TMingyur wrote: "Empty of whatever is not there" does this entail "impermanence" still being there?
To what would one ascribe the quality of impermanence?
TMingyur wrote: Where is "there"?
I would guess the sutta quote is referring to ones perceptual field or awareness. What do you think?
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
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ground
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Re: Emptiness

Post by ground »

m0rl0ck wrote:
TMingyur wrote: "Empty of whatever is not there" does this entail "impermanence" still being there?
To what would one ascribe the quality of impermanence?
To "something" which is identifiable and that which is "identifiable" as "this" (which is said to be "impermanent") may appear so based on the construction of "own being" of "this". Otherwise if there is no "own being" to what does "this" (which is said to be "impermanent") refer to?
m0rl0ck wrote:
TMingyur wrote: Where is "there"?
I would guess the sutta quote is referring to ones perceptual field or awareness. What do you think?
Maybe.

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Assaji
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Assaji »

Hi Tony,
ashtanga wrote:Cacn someone explain how Theravadin meditation practices - following the breath, vipassana etc... - can bring about an experience of Emptiness.
There's an in-depth description of this practice at the website:
http://emptyuniverse.110mb.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
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tiltbillings
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Re: Emptiness

Post by tiltbillings »

Dmytro wrote: http://emptyuniverse.110mb.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Dmytro
Where is the rest of the Emptyuniverse stuff?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
PeterB
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Re: Emptiness

Post by PeterB »

Is "Emptiness" an adequate or satisfactory rendition of Anatta ? Even when adorned with a capital E ?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Emptiness

Post by tiltbillings »

PeterB wrote:Is "Emptiness" an adequate or satisfactory rendition of Anatta ? Even when adorned with a capital E ?
"Empty of self" is a possibility.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
PeterB
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Re: Emptiness

Post by PeterB »

I am not being pedantic here ..does "Empty of self."..differ from "empty of self." ?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Emptiness

Post by tiltbillings »

PeterB wrote:I am not being pedantic here ..does "Empty of self."..differ from "empty of self." ?
Well, not sure that I understand the question, but "Empty of self" are three words that would start at the beginning of a sentence, and "empty of self" would be used elsewhere with a sentence. Seriously: There are no capital letter in Sanskrit, out which Pali comes, so I would rather doubt that the that "empty" would be emphasized in such a way.

The "an" in anatta is a cognate to the "an" in a word such as "anurous" - having no tail. How would you gloss anurous? Free of a tail, without a tail, empty of a tail, tailless, but I'll defer here to a Pali-wallah such a the infrequent Ven Dhamanando, whose reading of Pali I trust greatly. English translators sort get stuck on no, not and un for translating words with the prefix of a/an. Asankhata is a prime example: unconditioned being a really crappy translation of the word, which gives the horrifying locution: the unconditioned, as if it were some thing out there.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
PeterB
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Re: Emptiness

Post by PeterB »

Yeah...maybe its me..really..but " Empty " when the word does nor start a sentence is a little similar. That capital E seems to suggest something portentious . Not a mere absence .
PeterB
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Re: Emptiness

Post by PeterB »

Its probably just me Tilt. The years spent on cushions listening to discourses on the" Seventeen Kinds of Emptiness " during my time in the Vajrayana have no doubt left their scars..
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tiltbillings
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Re: Emptiness

Post by tiltbillings »

PeterB wrote:Yeah...maybe its me..really..but " Empty " when the word does nor start a sentence is a little similar. That capital E seems to suggest something portentious . Not a mere absence .
Portentous. [cue the portentous oooh voices]. Maybe we can do without a portentous reading of empty. Too much of that going around as it is, which gives rise to such notions as buddhanature or luminous mind and such other things from which we should run away.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Emptiness

Post by tiltbillings »

PeterB wrote:Its probably just me Tilt. The years spent on cushions listening to discourses on the" Seventeen Kinds of Emptiness " during my time in the Vajrayana have no doubt left their scars..
Well, the nice things about the 17 kinds of Emptiness is that they are all empty.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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