Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
PeterB
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by PeterB »

yup sex is real bad..so none of us should do it and so the species will die out....end of problem.
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cooran
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by cooran »

So... Peter... tell me, please. Does this mean you think rebirth only occurs as a human being?

with metta
Chrfis
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Goofaholix
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by Goofaholix »

convivium wrote:so then, what happens when we develope equanimity to the vedana, discern the sankaras, and do not fuel mystified perceptions? We witness the dukkha and so...
if we recognize the dukkha in sexual desire, then it becomes the supporting condition for what is to follow; since it is a particularly powerful confluence of asvas and sankaras, the following conditions can distinguish themselves above other conditions of dukkha. From this arises stronger elements of faith, and the conditions that follow. Note that dukkha of birth is preceded by the clinging, and existance, which then gives rise to suffering.
Yes, this is true for all kinds of craving, including sexual craving.
convivium wrote: What is the cause of birth in mundane knowledge? Sex. Despite controversy over the multiple lifetimes, model, etc. we are fashioned in sex, and this precedes both existence and birth the existence of the aggregates*, as we come know them empirically. but is life and death but a dream anyway? :zzz: in which case (one lifetime model) clinging-->existance-->birth seems all the same particularly sexual, though other factors of tanha are enumerated as well.
Actually the cause of birth in mundane knowledge I'd say is pregnancy, and of course the cause of pregnancy is sex, anyway I'm sure my wife would back me up that there is a lot of dukkha in pregnancy.

I suggest you start with the four noble truths and work your way from there, trying to fashion Buddhism as something about sex just doesn't work.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
PeterB
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by PeterB »

cooran wrote:So... Peter... tell me, please. Does this mean you think rebirth only occurs as a human being?

with metta
Chrfis
Rebirth is another issue Chris..
my answer was ironic, brahmacariya in the Hindu sense plays no part in Theravada Buddhism. Bhikkhus are not celibate for the same reasons as Hindu monks. Sex is only a problem to the extent that we see it as a problem. Many people see it as a problem. The loud buzz is the bee in their bonnet.
PeterB
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by PeterB »

cooran wrote:So... Peter... tell me, please. Does this mean you think rebirth only occurs as a human being?

with metta
Chrfis
At the risk of derailing the thread onto something completely different I am agnostic about literal Rebirth whether in the human or any other realm.
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

I, a monk,
gone to the charnel ground,
saw a woman cast away,
discarded
there in the cemetery.

Though some were disgusted,
seeing her — dead, evil —
lust
appeared,
as if I were blind
to the oozings.

In less time than it takes
for rice to cook,
I got out of that place.
Mindful, alert, I
sat down to one side.
Then apt attention arose in me,
the drawbacks appeared,
disenchantment stood
at an even keel:

With that, my heart was released.
See the Dhamma's true rightness!
The three knowledges
have been attained;
the Awakened One's bidding,
done.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...5.01.than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Asubha meditation

The meaning and the purpose:
Asubha means un-beauty. Kammatthana means meditation exercise. So Asubha-Kammatthana means meditation exercise by using unloveliness of body as the object of meditation. Concentrate on the temperament of that there is nothing beautiful, there is only dirtiness and disgust in and of the body.

This is good for those with lustful disposition.

CAUTION: R-Rated

http://www.wakeupsmart.com/Asubha.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
that's what monks used to do; only in real life. watching and smelling the bodies decay, with flesh eating animals around them. Does this still happen?
Last edited by convivium on Fri May 21, 2010 7:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Goofaholix
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by Goofaholix »

convivium wrote: that's what monks used to do; only in real life. watching and smelling the bodies decay, with flesh eating animals around them. Does this still happen?
yes
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Agent
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by Agent »

See the dhamma talk "In the Dead of Night" by Ajahn Chah starting on page 236 of this collection of talks.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā.
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

So the main methods dealing with sexual suppression and desire are so far...
contemplation of loathsomeness/charnel ground
jhana
sense restraint
hard work/busy schedule/little sleep
one meal a day
not seeing women
the rest of the eightfold path...
Do many Therevada monastics & initiates have issues of sexual suppression? Are these approaches usually sufficient to renounce all forms of sexuality?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Cittasanto
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by Cittasanto »

convivium wrote:So the main methods dealing with sexual suppression and desire are so far...
contemplation of loathsomeness/charnel ground
jhana
sense restraint
hard work/busy schedule/little sleep
one meal a day
not seeing women
the rest of the eightfold path...
Do many Therevada monastics & initiates have issues of sexual suppression? Are these approaches usually sufficient to renounce all forms of sexuality?
suppression isn't going to help anyone, we are to 'let go of,' renounce, not suppress.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

do wet dreams count as brahmacariya?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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retrofuturist
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
convivium wrote:do wet dreams count as brahmacariya?
There is no violation of patimokkha precepts in this, so yes.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

what about half asleep? lucid dream? :geek: it's interesting because the intention is still there, but the superego is clouded. it's symptomatic of suppression. there's a stereotype that this happened (or happens) often with therevada monks. i wouldn't imagine that could be true though.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
PeterB
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by PeterB »

Can I ask you something Convivium..and I am not casting aspertions or being sarcastic here. Do you have an interest in any other aspect of the Buddhadhamma apart from your interest in its relationship to sexuality ?
You see Buddhadhamma comes as a package . It addresses many areas of functioning and does not concentrate on one to the exclusion of others.
I would go so far as to say that if our interest in Dhamma revolves around any single issue..like sexuality or like diet for example we will stand in danger of missing most of what it is saying.
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convivium
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Re: Theravada Process of Brahmacariya

Post by convivium »

this is particularly on my mind, because i'm considering ordination, and i've never been chaste for more than 6 months...
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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