Choosing a Monastery

[tiltbillings]

true. kagyu, etc is concerned with the creation of the subtle bodies, varjrasattva, etc. for the bodhisattva path. http://sacred-sex.org/buddhism/

And this has what to do with "Choosing a Monastery?"

[convivium]

there are tibetan monasteries. eventually many these monks might marry, or maybe conduct practices in secret. i really don't know much more about it.

[tiltbillings]

there are tibetan monasteries. eventually many these monks might marry, or maybe conduct practices in secret. i really don't know much more about it.

This seems to be coming out of left field. What does have to do with this thread?

[convivium]

i suppose i was trying to answer your question:

So, you are looking at the Theravada as a "foundational" practice in preparation for?

[tiltbillings]

i suppose i was trying to answer your question:

So, you are looking at the Theravada as a "foundational" practice in preparation for?

So, basically, your real interest is in Tibetan Buddhism.

[convivium]

to the extent that mahayana/tibetan buddhism contains and fits into therevada, and has practices that assist in samatha, and discernment. what will come beyond, if anything, i don't know.

[tiltbillings]

to the extent that mahayana/tibetan buddhism contains and fits into therevada, and has practices that assist in samatha, and discernment. what will come beyond, if anything, i don't know.

Tibetan Buddhism does not contain Theravada nor does it fit into Theravada.

[convivium]

Exoteric traditions are more solid and balanced since they mostly work with the perceptions and energies of the physical plane. So even though it is not uncommon to be visited with various astral experiences during advanced stages of Zen or Vipassana meditation, the emphasis of such schools is to continue grounding back to this earth--to the sights, sounds, tastes and thoughts that comprise ordinary experience. The drawback is that the primal energies that underpin the physical world are only indirectly addressed.

Esoteric traditions, on the other hand, determine to apply themselves directly to the forces that underlie ordinary existence. They reach for the essential nature of the experience of living which manifests as subtle energy and consciousness. The drawback is that similar to reaching too far, too fast, into the psyche as for the fast traditions, esoteric work can reach too far, too fast into subtler fields of energy. This can manifest variously as, for instance, unwanted communication with other beings, energetic imbalances of the body and mind, and uncontrolled effects on the environment and other beings.

The confluence of Buddhism and other mystical teachings in the West is resulting in a blending of these various approaches to spirituality. It is likely that, along with the aforementioned paths, a blending of them which puts emphasis somewhere in between along both axes of the above table will develop as a useful approach for those who wish to remain in a regular lifestyle. http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~greg.c/tibet.html

to an extent i'm interested the "esoteric," but the "exoteric" has been working fine. that these practices and perspectives are always mutually exclusive is a question that still comes to mind.

[tiltbillings]

Exoteric traditions . . .

to an extent i'm interested the "esoteric," but the "exoteric" has been working fine. that these practices and perspectives are always mutually exclusive is a question that still comes to mind.

Kind of hard to take that quote and website seriously: http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/emperors.htm

[convivium]

absent of the scandal, what aspect of that quote doesn't conform with your understanding?

[tiltbillings]

absent of the scandal, what aspect of that quote doesn't conform with your understanding?

The scandal points to a serious lack of balance.

When you start getting one school of Buddhism saying this or that about another so as to make one look good and the other "foundational" or whatever subsumptive, triumphalist, supersessionist set of terms they might pop out (such as hinayana), it is hard to take them seriously. And I do not exclude any school in that observation.

Also, the Buddha did not teach with a closed fist.

[convivium]

what do you think of the exoteric vs esoteric dichotomy ^?

[tiltbillings]

what do you think of the exoteric vs esoteric dichotomy ^?

Not much. It was manufactured well after the death of the Buddha.

[convivium]

Tibetan Buddhism does not contain Theravada nor does it fit into Theravada.

What are the main dissonances you see of Tibetan and Therevada traditions that they are incompatible, and do not contain eachother?

[jcsuperstar]

those two schools have quite a few differences any casual glance should revel them. heres a couple; different ideas about the "goals" of buddhism, different definitions of what a buddha is, different definitions of what an arahant is, different definitions of what a bodhisatta is, different ideas as to what the buddha actually taught.

[convivium]

those two schools have quite a few differences any casual glance should revel them. heres a couple; different ideas about the "goals" of buddhism, different definitions of what a buddha is, different definitions of what an arahant is, different definitions of what a bodhisatta is, different ideas as to what the buddha actually taught.

these are definitely differences on the conventional level, but to what extent are these, or what are the incompatibilities in the ultimate or literal level?

[jcsuperstar]

if road A goes to point B and road j goes to point F and you want to go to point B it's probably best not to take road J, sure both are roads and both have stop lights and petrol stations and if you're just riding along they seem like pretty much the same road however similarities do not make them the same road.

[jcsuperstar]

or here

"“If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.” ~ Yogi Berra

[convivium]

you have a copy of the island too? http://www.abhayagiri.org/main/book/1788/

if road A goes to point B and road j goes to point F and you want to go to point B it's probably best not to take road J, sure both are roads and both have stop lights and petrol stations and if you're just riding along they seem like pretty much the same road however similarities do not make them the same road.

stop harmful action, adopt virtuous ones, purify your mind. isn't that the same teaching in both traditions? is the parinibbana that follows at the very end of both paths the same?

[jcsuperstar]

:anjali: you have a copy of the island too? http://www.abhayagiri.org/main/book/1788/

if road A goes to point B and road j goes to point F and you want to go to point B it's probably best not to take road J, sure both are roads and both have stop lights and petrol stations and if you're just riding along they seem like pretty much the same road however similarities do not make them the same road.

stop harmful action, adopt virtuous ones, purify your mind. isn't that the same teaching in both traditions? is the parinibbana that follows at the very end of both paths the same?

it's using the same language but perhaps it means different things, like i said the roads may seem similar but if purify the mind means different things to different people then you may get different results.