Seven Suns Sermon

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Seven Suns Sermon

Postby PishPoshy » Tue May 25, 2010 1:25 am

Hey y'all, I'm doing an essay regarding the Seven Suns Sermon, or Buddha's Discourse on the End of the World, and I was wondering if anyone knew any information with regards to when this sermon was given or any other relevant information to the text.

Thanks,
Lytisha

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Sobeh » Tue May 25, 2010 3:19 am

It has to do with impermanence, and how not even a fantastic mythical powerhouse is free from such. Only those Noble Disciples are free who follow the Dhamma.

That's what I get from it. Chances are it was delivered to brahmins, hence their extant mythical structure being bent to the purpose of this teaching on anicca.

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 25, 2010 3:35 am

Greetings,

Does anyone know the sutta number, name and nikaya of the "Seven Suns Sermon"?

I'm guessing from what Sobeh says it may be from the Digha Nikaya?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Ben » Tue May 25, 2010 3:39 am

AN 7.62
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby bodom » Tue May 25, 2010 3:51 am

The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Virgo » Tue May 25, 2010 3:58 am

Sobeh wrote:It has to do with impermanence, and how not even a fantastic mythical powerhouse is free from such. Only those Noble Disciples are free who follow the Dhamma.

That's what I get from it. Chances are it was delivered to brahmins, hence their extant mythical structure being bent to the purpose of this teaching on anicca.

Noble Disciples aren't there-- neither here nor there my friend.

Kevin

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Ben » Tue May 25, 2010 4:13 am

bodom wrote:The Sermon Of The Seven Suns

http://buddhasutra.com/files/sermon_of_ ... n_suns.htm

:anjali:


Thanks Bodom, it looks like a copy of the one I found when googling the title. The translation is way too suspect for my liking.

The Master Sunetto preached to his disciples the doctrine of fellowship with the world of God; and those who understood all his religion in every way, when he preached this doctrine, were born again, upon the dissolution of the body after death, to weal in the world of God...

...
2. I am not sure of the meaning of this word...

1. Translation uncertain. The word saddhâtâ is not in Childers, and I can find no equivalent in Sanskrit...

2. There is no break in the Pâli, but the present division is made for the sake of another Gospel parallel.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Sobeh » Tue May 25, 2010 6:27 am

Virgo wrote:Noble Disciples aren't there-- neither here nor there my friend.


Nope, just free - which is what I wrote.

:anjali:

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Kim OHara » Thu May 27, 2010 12:02 pm

Ben wrote:
bodom wrote:The Sermon Of The Seven Suns

http://buddhasutra.com/files/sermon_of_ ... n_suns.htm

:anjali:


Thanks Bodom, it looks like a copy of the one I found when googling the title. The translation is way too suspect for my liking.
...

Agreed. With a bit of hindsight, even the title of the translation should have been a warning to us.
Do you know of a better translation online? ATI doesn't seem to have it.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby bodom » Thu May 27, 2010 1:35 pm

I was hesitant at first to post this translation but it was the only one I could find. Guess we'll just have too wait for Bodhi's Anguttara if we want a reliable translation.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Ben » Thu May 27, 2010 1:42 pm

No Kim.
Like Bodom, I'll just have to wait for Bhikkhu Bodhi to finish translating the AN for a reliable translation of that sutta.
kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby cooran » Thu May 27, 2010 9:45 pm

Hello all,

I'm sure it would be somewhere here ~ I just can't match the numbering system with that of ATI.

Complete translation of the Anguttara Nikaya by Sister Upalavanna (English and Pali provided)
http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... index.html

with metta
Chris
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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Anicca » Thu May 27, 2010 11:33 pm

Volume 4 - Sattakanipàta - 7 Mahàvaggo - 2. Sattasåriyasuttaü- Seven suns.

Metta

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby upekha » Thu May 27, 2010 11:39 pm

I managed to find it.

2. Sattasåriyasuttaü- Seven suns.

007.02. I heard thus. At one time The Blessed One was living in Ambapali's mango orchard. The Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus from there:

ßBhikkhus, determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, the highest peak of the Himalayas, is eighty four thousand yojanas high from sea level. (a yojana is seven miles) Eighty four thousand yojanas in breadth. It is eighty four thousand yojanas deep down in the sea. Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when it does not rain. When it does not rain, all seed and vegetation born plants such as medicinal grass, plants trees and forests dry up and wither and are no more. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when a second sun rises. When a second sun rises whatever streams, rivulets dry up and wither and are no more. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when a third sun rises. When a third sun rises, the great rivers such as the Ganges, yamuna, Aciravatie, Sarabhu and Mahi dry up and wither. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when a fourth sun rises. When a fourth sun rises, the great ponds mintained by the great rivers such as Anotatta, Sihapapata, Rathakara, Kannamunda, Kunala, Chadanta and Mandakini dry up and wither, they become no more. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when a fifth sun rises. When a fifth sun rises, the water in the great ocean recedes one hundred yojanas, two hundred yojanas three hundred yojanas, five hundred yojanas, six hundred yojanas and seven hundred yojanas. The water recedes to the height of seven, six, five, four, three, two palms and even one palm. The water recedes to the height of seven, six, five, four, three, two men, or even one man. It recedes to half the height of a man. It recedes to the knee depth of a man, to the ankle depth of a man. When the fifth sun rises there would not be water in the ocean to wet the fingers up to the knots. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when a sixth sun rises. When a sixth sun rises, the great earth and the peak of the Himalayas smokes, and gets filled with smoke. Like when something made by a potter is cooked. It smokes and gets filled up with smoke. In the same manner when a sixth sun rises, the great earth and the peak of the Himalayas smokes, and gets filled with smoke. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations.

Bhikkhus, after the lapse of many years, many hundreds of thousands of years there comes a time when a seventh sun rises. When a seventh sun rises, the great earth and the peak of the Himalayas blazes and catch fire. When the great earth and the peak of the Himalayas blaze and catch fire, flames tossed by the winds reach upto the world of Brahma. When the peak of the Himalaya mountain burns, peaks as high as a hundred yojanas, two hundred yojanas, three hundred yojanas, four hundred yojanas and five hundred yojanas crumble. Bhikkhus, when the earth and the Himalaya peak is burning ash or cream of ash is not evident. Bhikkhus, thus determinations are impermanent not stable, there is nothing to comfort in them, so it is suitable that you should turn away from, get disentangled from and be releasd from all determinations. Bhikkhus, when the earth and the Himalaya peak is burning, whatever divine sayings and beliefs be, they also get burnt and are no more, would attained right view remain?

Bhikkhus, in the past, there was a Teacher called Sunetta, one free of greed who helped to cross the ford. The Teacher Sunetta had innumerable hundreds of disciples .Bhikkhus, this Teacher taught, to be born in the world of Brahma. Those who completely knew the dispensation of Sunetta, after death, were born in a good state in the world of Brahma. Some of those who did not know the complete dispensation of Sunetta, after death, were born with those attached to the creation of others. Some attached to creation, soome with the happy ones, some with the Titan gods, some with the gods of the thirty-three and with the guardian gods. Others were born with high clans of warriors, Brahmins and householders.

Then it occured to the Teacher Sunetta. `It is not suitable for me to be born in the same plane as my disciples, after death, what if I develop loving kindness further.'

Then the Teacher Sunetta developed loving kindness for seven years. Having developed loving kindness for seven years, he did not come to this world for seven forward and backward world cycles. During the forward world cycles he was born a radiant god and during the backward world cycles was born in an empty Brahma paradise. There he was Brahma the supreme Lord, not conquered with sure insight wielding authority

There, he was Brahma, Brahma the great, the unconquered lord and master with sure insight, holding authority for seven timesòhirty six times he was Sakka the king of gods. Innumerable hundreds of times he was the righteous universal monarch, winning the four directions and establishing states. Bhikkhus, he was endowed with these seven jewels, such as the jewel of the wheel, the elephant, the horse, the jewel, the woman, the householder and the adviser. Bhikkhus, he had over a thousand courageous sons with valiant figures, for crushing foreign armies. They lived ruling over the earth righteously, without weapons as far as the limit of the ocean. Bhikkhus, that Teacher Sunetta with long life and long standing was not released from birth, decay, death, grief, lament, unpleasantness and displeasure, I say not released from unpleasantness.

What is the reason? For not realizing and experiencing four things.What four?

Not realizing and experiencing the virtues, concentration, wisdom and release of the noble ones. Now he has realized and experienced the virtues, concentration, wisdom and release of the noble ones. The craving to be is uprooted, the leader of being is destroyed. Now he has no more birth. The Blessed One further said:

Famous Gotama, has realized noble virtues, concentration, wisdom and release

And declaring the Teaching to end unpleasantness is mindfully extinguished.

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Ben » Thu May 27, 2010 11:50 pm

Thank you Chris, Anicca and Upekha.
kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

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Re: Seven Suns Sermon

Postby Zom » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:45 am

There's an idea, that Buddha is speaking about our sun supernova. The first one is a bit enlarged. The second is still bigger, and so on - until Earth is "consumed" by sun totally :reading:


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