"discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Exploring the Dhamma, as understood from the perspective of the ancient Pali commentaries.
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dhammastudier
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"discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by dhammastudier »

Digha Nikaya long discourses

Majjhima Nikaya medium-length discourses

Samyutta Nikaya connected discourses.

i wanted these for sooooooooooooo long! too expensive, then out of print for a little while so used copies were even higher. now i'm getting them for my birthday from my loving family! which one should i read first? or all at once? i have a general idea about what each one's purpose was but thought someone on here might have a suggestion :smile:

also the disciples of the buddha book. should i get it? does it have their teachings or just stories about them?
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Ben
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Ben »

What I would do first Zac is to read MN in conjunction with Bhikkhu Bodhi's mp3 lecture series on the MN, available at Bodhi Monastery (google the web address). You could then read the SN and DN either after completing the MN, or in tandem with the MN. But certainly making the MN the first port of call and in conjunction with Bhante's lecture series will give you a firm foundation of the Dhamma. You should also look at taking advantage of the discussion threads in the study group: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewforum.php?f=25" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which has until recently focused on suttas from the MN.

Great Disciples of the Buddha is excellent. The biographies of the great disciples were compiled by Helmeth Hecker, Nyanaponika Thera and Bhikkhu Bodhi from material in the canon and ancient commentarial literature. The material from those three luminaries are well research and make for some very inspiring reading as well as being a reference in its own right. Some of the individual biographies are available on http://www.accesstoinsight.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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dhammastudier
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by dhammastudier »

Ben wrote:What I would do first Zac is to read MN in conjunction with Bhikkhu Bodhi's mp3 lecture series on the MN, available at Bodhi Monastery (google the web address). You could then read the SN and DN either after completing the MN, or in tandem with the MN. But certainly making the MN the first port of call and in conjunction with Bhante's lecture series will give you a firm foundation of the Dhamma. You should also look at taking advantage of the discussion threads in the study group: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewforum.php?f=25" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which has until recently focused on suttas from the MN.

Great Disciples of the Buddha is excellent. The biographies of the great disciples were compiled by Helmeth Hecker, Nyanaponika Thera and Bhikkhu Bodhi from material in the canon and ancient commentarial literature. The material from those three luminaries are well research and make for some very inspiring reading as well as being a reference in its own right. Some of the individual biographies are available on http://www.accesstoinsight.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
kind regards

Ben
awesome! thanx so much!
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Ben
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Ben »

My pleasure!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

I would recommend starting with either the Samyutta Nikaya or the Majjhima Nikaya.

If you know that eventually you'll get through all 3, start with the SN.

If you're less than confident that you'll eventually get through all 3, start with the MN.

If Bhikkhu's Bodhi's translation of the Anguttara Nikaya appears on the bookshelves before you get to the Digha Nikaya, prioritise that over the DN as well. Furthermore, collections within the Khuddaka Nikaya like the Dhammapada , Udana, Itivuttaka, Sutta Nipata, Theragatha and Therigatha are also worth prioritising above the DN. English language translations of these texts are reasonably easy to come by.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Reductor »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

I would recommend starting with either the Samyutta Nikaya or the Majjhima Nikaya.

If you know that eventually you'll get through all 3, start with the SN....
Good advice here Retro, but I think the MN should always come first. It contains such a wide variety of material, ranging from doctrinal to inspirational, to practical advice on how to resolve conflicts, etc. By the end of the MN there is nicely rounded view of the Dhamma and Vinaya, which provides a firm frame to hang the SN on to. It is also pretty easy reading. The SN, in contrast, is very doctrinal and abstract, and finely detailed, and as such it is not as easy nor as enjoyable to read, IMO.

From the Khuddaka, I would definitely suggest the Udana first... although the Sutta Nipita is my favorite. But definitely the DN is a low priority, unless you're into more fanciful aspects of the Dhamma.
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by bodom »

Why's everyone so down on the DN? It was the first one I read and contains quite a few of the most important suttas the Buddha gave.

1. Brahmajala Sutta
2. Samannaphala Sutta
15. Mahanidana Sutta
16. Mahaparinibbana Sutta
22. Mahasatipatthana Sutta
31. Sigalovada Sutta

For me it provided a firm grasp and understanding of the Dhamma so that I could then move on to MN and SN rather easily.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by bodom »

Regardless of which order one chooses to read them in, I am of the opinion one would be best to start with Bodhi's anthology In the Buddha's Words which is part of the Teachings of the Buddha series. I read this before starting the Nikaya's and it was instrumental in my understanding of the key doctrinal aspects of the Dhamma. There is no better introduction to the suttas than this book. I would have been lost without it.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Reductor »

bodom wrote:Why's everyone so down on the DN? It was the first one I read and contains quite a few of the most important suttas the Buddha gave.
...
:anjali:
I too got a lot out of the DN and consider it a must read, as those suttas you've listed are indeed important. But because it has a much lower ratio of doctrine/practical content in relation to the more fanciful content, when compared to the other Nikayas, I do not consider it the most efficient means of grasping the Dhamma.

But it might be the most fun of the Nikaya... the most colourful. Not to be neglected.
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Sobeh »

I don't like the Digha simply because when I quote the Dhamma from it, I use ellipses like they're going out of style to trim out the narrative and mythological parts, and since that feels too much like shredding the thing I go elsewhere for my cites.
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Agent »

bodom wrote:Why's everyone so down on the DN? It was the first one I read and contains quite a few of the most important suttas the Buddha gave.
First one I read too.
bodom wrote:Regardless of which order one chooses to read them in, I am of the opinion one would be best to start with Bodhi's anthology In the Buddha's Words which is part of the Teachings of the Buddha series. I read this before starting the Nikaya's and it was instrumental in my understanding of the key doctrinal aspects of the Dhamma.
Good call. That is what I did also. I think it's easier to start with the DN after having read In the Buddha's Words. If I hadn't read that first, I think the DN would have been a bit much to digest as a first contact point with the suttas.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā.
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by dhammastudier »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

I would recommend starting with either the Samyutta Nikaya or the Majjhima Nikaya.

If you know that eventually you'll get through all 3, start with the SN.

If you're less than confident that you'll eventually get through all 3, start with the MN.

If Bhikkhu's Bodhi's translation of the Anguttara Nikaya appears on the bookshelves before you get to the Digha Nikaya, prioritise that over the DN as well. Furthermore, collections within the Khuddaka Nikaya like the Dhammapada , Udana, Itivuttaka, Sutta Nipata, Theragatha and Therigatha are also worth prioritising above the DN. English language translations of these texts are reasonably easy to come by.

Metta,
Retro. :)
grrr, now you have me wanting a whole new list of books ;)! ok so all i got is the SN, MN, and DN. i already have the dhammapada. i was kind of under the impression that the SN, MN, and DN were pretty inclusive because that's all wisdom publications has published of the sutta pitaka. but you're saying the same translator (And i'm assuming same publisher) is doing the second to last book of the sutta pitaka pretty soon? well i guess i'll just have to buy it then! thanx a lot retro for letting me know there are more things i want and can't afford :tongue: ! and the khuddaka nikaya i haven't seen anywhere to buy it all together. do you know of anywhere i could find it all together? it would be super sweet to have the entire sutta pitaka on my shelf! thanx for the info, much appreciated! amazon has this
http://www.amazon.com/Anguttara-Nikaya- ... 773&sr=8-3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which sounds complete. bodhi's says it's a collection or anthology. is his translation complete or should i get the one from amazon?

oh also the abidharma? i have bikkhu bodhi's "comprehensive manual". is there any good way to get all seven books? all i see on amazon is volumes written in the eighteen hundreds that i imagine aren't too fun to read lol!
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by dhammastudier »

bodom wrote:Regardless of which order one chooses to read them in, I am of the opinion one would be best to start with Bodhi's anthology In the Buddha's Words which is part of the Teachings of the Buddha series. I read this before starting the Nikaya's and it was instrumental in my understanding of the key doctrinal aspects of the Dhamma. There is no better introduction to the suttas than this book. I would have been lost without it.

:anjali:
thanx, i already read that one and absolutely loved it! it's the reason i want the rest!
Last edited by dhammastudier on Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by Reductor »

Zac, pace yourself. The three that you have now, the DN MN and SN, will take you a good deal of time to read and comprehend. There are four large Nikayas: the three above and the AN, the Anguttara, the anthology of which you've mentioned. The anthology is less than a quarter of the whole collection... a complete translation of that collection, also by Bodhi, is hoped to be out in a years time, published by Wisdom. A years time is long enough for you to read most of the three you have, so do that and don't spend more money than you need to for books you aren't going to read anytime soon.

The khuddka is broken up into pieces and you'll have to buy this part and that to get it all. Again, don't fret to much, as the first few books are online at accesstoinsight.org . Search on google for Thanissaro's PDF version of the Ittivutaka. Go to http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/T ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the Udana. Its pretty good - but has some quirky, and consistent, grammer issues. The meaning comes through alright though. You can order a copy of K.R Norman's "Group of Discourses" from amazon, and that's a translation of the Sutta Nipita. Its good reading.
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Re: "discourses of the buddha series" which one first?

Post by dhammastudier »

thereductor wrote:Zac, pace yourself. The three that you have now, the DN MN and SN, will take you a good deal of time to read and comprehend. There are four large Nikayas: the three above and the AN, the Anguttara, the anthology of which you've mentioned. The anthology is less than a quarter of the whole collection... a complete translation of that collection, also by Bodhi, is hoped to be out in a years time, published by Wisdom. A years time is long enough for you to read most of the three you have, so do that and don't spend more money than you need to for books you aren't going to read anytime soon.

The khuddka is broken up into pieces and you'll have to buy this part and that to get it all. Again, don't fret to much, as the first few books are online at accesstoinsight.org . Search on google for Thanissaro's PDF version of the Ittivutaka. Go to http://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/T ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for the Udana. Its pretty good - but has some quirky, and consistent, grammer issues. The meaning comes through alright though. You can order a copy of K.R Norman's "Group of Discourses" from amazon, and that's a translation of the Sutta Nipita. Its good reading.
woo hoo! thanx i'll read that online. and yeah i know i'm getting all hungry ghost with dharma books! i've just read sooooooo many books by masters who are talking about what they think about the buddha's teachings and dropping quotes from time to time and i'm really anxious to actually read what they are quoting from!
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