Please remember

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

Please remember

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:40 am

Dear all

Thirty-five people have lost their lives in bushfires since yesterday in Victoria, Australia.
Some of the fires were deliberately lit.
Homes have been destroyed. Marysville is gone.
Image

Please remember them.

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16128
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Please remember

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:06 am

The heat over there has been going for too long, making the conditions right for the fires.

Be well and safe, all Aussies! :buddha1: :group:
User avatar
David N. Snyder
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8107
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Please remember

Postby Individual » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:18 am

If conditions like fire can be so extreme like that, burning over such a great distance so quickly, can't they fireproof their homes and can't individual people build fireproof shelters? For instance, if a house is built out of stone, brick, or with plastic or metal siding, and the interior of the home is built with fireproof drywall, it should be relatively safe.

It's so extraordinary to me to think of how death can come so quickly, at any time... One day, you're there, and then you're surrounded by a wall of fire. It's like those rare cases of planes crashing into people's homes.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
Individual
 
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Please remember

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:06 am

Greetings Individual,

Some entire townships have been destroyed. It sounds like most who died (official toll up to 65 people and growing... 700+ homes) are those who stayed to defend their properties. People in the countryside generally have Fire Plans in place beforehand... I suspect after the ferocity of this fire, people might be a little more conservative with their plans. Even those who take "every precaution" have had their houses ravaged.

Even now we've got someone at our house whose father is a firefighter and she was in and around the areas at the time. A lot of people affected.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14672
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Please remember

Postby cooran » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:24 am

Hello all,

The number of people burned to death has now risen to 76 and is expected to go much higher - predicted to be 100 by morning ~ it's 8.30 p.m. Sunday night now.
Australia's Worst Bush Fire Disaster
http://www.abc.net.au/news/

karuna,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
 
Posts: 7597
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Please remember

Postby christopher::: » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:45 am

Oh my. This is terrible. I hope this is near none of your homes. What a tragedy.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
User avatar
christopher:::
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Please remember

Postby genkaku » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:18 pm

May there be peace in
sorrowing places.

Image
User avatar
genkaku
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Northampton, Mass. U.S.A.

Re: Please remember

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:20 pm

Individual wrote:If conditions like fire can be so extreme like that, burning over such a great distance so quickly, can't they fireproof their homes and can't individual people build fireproof shelters? For instance, if a house is built out of stone, brick, or with plastic or metal siding, and the interior of the home is built with fireproof drywall, it should be relatively safe.

It's so extraordinary to me to think of how death can come so quickly, at any time... One day, you're there, and then you're surrounded by a wall of fire. It's like those rare cases of planes crashing into people's homes.


Hi Individual

As you can appreciate, its a bit more complicated. A lot of people who live in rural areas are on low income, maybe living in rental accommodation or do everything they should and could, and still get burned out or die as a result. Many buildings get destroyd before the fire-front hits by ember attack.

What I saw on the news tonight was that for some people there seemed to be very little warning. One woman said that she just happened to be near the front door when someone called to her to get out of the house, whereupon she discovered to her horror that it was actually on fire. As retro said, a lot of people died trying to defend their homes. And some of those people would have died in a state of panic and confusion in those last few minutes as the fire-front struck.

Up until last week, I was living in a prime bushfire area in rural victoria. We lived in a beautiful house that backed onto pine plantation that adjoined a large native forest in central victoria. I had a fire-fighting pump and had 7,500 litres of water in a tank. However, I knew that if a megafire came over the ridge, our western-red cedar would light up like a match. The intensity of the heat and the speed at which a fire-front moves even takes veterans for a surprise. For a number of reasons I am glad that I no longer own the property and have that six-month long anxiety about bushfires, but I am still deeply shocked and saddened by what has happened.
Metta

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16128
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Please remember

Postby Annapurna » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:39 pm

Oh, my.

:(

This is borderline murder to me.... :cookoo:

Best wishes to all who suffer.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Annapurna
 
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Please remember

Postby Annapurna » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:53 pm

Individual wrote:If conditions like fire can be so extreme like that, burning over such a great distance so quickly, can't they fireproof their homes and can't individual people build fireproof shelters? For instance, if a house is built out of stone, brick, or with plastic or metal siding, and the interior of the home is built with fireproof drywall, it should be relatively safe.

It's so extraordinary to me to think of how death can come so quickly, at any time... One day, you're there, and then you're surrounded by a wall of fire. It's like those rare cases of planes crashing into people's homes.


It's interesting that you mention stone and brick houses, with steel constructions, because that is basically all we have here.

We once had a severe storm here which took our tiles off and a part of our roof, but the house itself didn''t even tremble with it's thick brickwalls.

The trees in our garden had fallen over.

The walls would probably resist a fire, but not the roof.

And then Australia is so much hotter.

Just some thoughts..-.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Annapurna
 
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Please remember

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:37 pm

May they all be well, happy and peaceful!

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4612
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Please remember

Postby Tex » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:55 pm

So sad. Best wishes to our friends down under.
"The serene and peaceful mind is the true epitome of human achievement."-- Ajahn Chah, Living Dhamma

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi
User avatar
Tex
 
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:46 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Please remember

Postby cooran » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:16 pm

Hello Individual, all,

Individual said: If conditions like fire can be so extreme like that, burning over such a great distance so quickly, can't they fireproof their homes and can't individual people build fireproof shelters? For instance, if a house is built out of stone, brick, or with plastic or metal siding, and the interior of the home is built with fireproof drywall, it should be relatively safe.


I don't think you understand bushfires, the intensity of the heat, the speed they move at and the size of the fire itself. It is the heat and lack of oxygen which kills.

We are not talking about a couple of paddocks on fire.

The Kinglake complex of fires is 80 kilometres wide and 220,000 hectares in size.

Aluminium melts at 650C ... many window screens melt, the glass is shattered and embers get in and destroy the inside of the house in minutes.

If the fire itself doesn't burn people to death, the heat kills them.

If you don't get out early and abandon your home - you cannot outdrive or outrun a bushfire.

Embers fall 100 metres ahead of a burning grass fire, 2.5 km ahead of a burning pine trees, 8 km ahead of a burning eucalypt forest, 35 km when there is a convection column.

The Fire Protection Authority was telling people that if they could smell smoke on the wind, t was too late to run, and to try to protect themselves where they were, as best they could.

Sitting in a swimming pool isn't much help in the big fires - you die of smoke inhalation or you are boiled alive.

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
 
Posts: 7597
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Please remember

Postby zavk » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:13 am

Chris wrote:
I don't think you understand bushfires, the intensity of the heat, the speed they move at and the size of the fire itself. It is the heat and lack of oxygen which kills.

We are not talking about a couple of paddocks on fire.

The Kinglake complex of fires is 80 kilometres wide and 220,000 hectares in size.

Aluminium melts at 650C ... many window screens melt, the glass is shattered and embers get in and destroy the inside of the house in minutes.

If the fire itself doesn't burn people to death, the heat kills them.

If you don't get out early and abandon your home - you cannot outdrive or outrun a bushfire.

Embers fall 100 metres ahead of a burning grass fire, 2.5 km ahead of a burning pine trees, 8 km ahead of a burning eucalypt forest, 35 km when there is a convection column.

The Fire Protection Authority was telling people that if they could smell smoke on the wind, t was too late to run, and to try to protect themselves where they were, as best they could.

Sitting in a swimming pool isn't much help in the big fires - you die of smoke inhalation or you are boiled alive.

metta
Chris


:weep:

The TV images do not--cannot--convey the severity of the situation.

Yet... every year there would be arsonists who deliberately start fires. Sigh......

:group:
With metta,
zavk
User avatar
zavk
 
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Return to Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crazy cloud, Nicolas and 5 guests