Historicity of the Buddha

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby cooran » Sun May 09, 2010 8:27 am

oceanman said: if we had proof that this is fake, and that is authentic, then there would be no division


This is not so. The Vajrayana and Mahayana traditions accept that the Theravada Scriptures are Buddhavacana ~ but they say that what he taught was only what could be understood by people at that time. .... Later on, tibetan, chinese and other asian peoples were given other more complex and deep teachings because the general population was more intelligent and enlightened and could benefit from them.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
 
Posts: 7059
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby retrofuturist » Sun May 09, 2010 8:46 am

Greetings Oceanmen,

Replace "would" with "could" (or "should"?), fix a few typos, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Welcome to the Early Buddhism forum.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby oceanmen » Sun May 09, 2010 9:05 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Oceanmen,

Replace "would" with "could" (or "should"?), fix a few typos, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Welcome to the Early Buddhism forum.

Metta,
Retro. :)



thats what i call mindfulness of speech, thanks!!
:clap:
User avatar
oceanmen
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:45 am

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby dennis60 » Sun May 09, 2010 11:49 am

I have been practicing Buddhism for about 23 years, but i can understand the original post and the questions and concerns that are expressed therein. Many Buddhists use "scripture" to justify their personal practice, that borders ( sometimes ) on exclusiveness and self righteousness. As the poster has said....Examine deeply the teachings in Buddhism, and don't take anyone's word for any of it....try it and experience it for yourself. This thread reminds me of a book called "The Five Gospels" by Funk, Hoover, and the Jesus Seminar.... Biblical Scholars scour over the new testament to find out what "Jesus really said" and/or "who Jesus really was". It turns out that these scholars conclude that much of what is written in the Bible about what Jesus said is probably not the case. I think that oral transmitting of stories can contain the general content of the message, after generations of story telling much of the details can be lost. For me that doesn't matter. The heart of the "Buddhas" message is still in tact and it works. :smile: We will never know for sure, but to reject Buddhism because of the oral tradition/transmission would be , IMO, a mistake. Practice what you here and read.....find out for yourself.
dennis60
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 12:12 am

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Sekha » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:09 am

I foolishly thought about this while shaving this morning:

Imagine someone gave you a map leading to a great treasure which you can begin to pick up step by step all along the way, after having gone to the proper place. They told you this map was written by an extraordinary man having lived say 2500 years ago. Then you go to the proper place according to the map and following indications, you move ahead. And you already start finding pieces of the treasure, which you can pick up and enjoy, and you become much wealthier than you can recall having ever been. And it seems more is coming ahead, exactly as much as written on the map.

Then someone comes and says: 'There is no evidence that ancient man actually existed, there is no evidence he wrote any map himself'. What do you tell him?




I just smile

:anjali:
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org
User avatar
Sekha
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:32 am

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Kare » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:13 pm

Dukkhanirodha wrote:I foolishly thought about this while shaving this morning:

Imagine someone gave you a map leading to a great treasure which you can begin to pick up step by step all along the way, after having gone to the proper place. They told you this map was written by an extraordinary man having lived say 2500 years ago. Then you go to the proper place according to the map and following indications, you move ahead. And you already start finding pieces of the treasure, which you can pick up and enjoy, and you become much wealthier than you can recall having ever been. And it seems more is coming ahead, exactly as much as written on the map.

Then someone comes and says: 'There is no evidence that ancient man actually existed, there is no evidence he wrote any map himself'. What do you tell him?




I just smile

:anjali:


:goodpost:

May I join you, smiling?

:anjali:
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
Kare
 
Posts: 669
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby SDC » Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:04 pm

Dukkhanirodha wrote:I foolishly thought about this while shaving this morning:

Imagine someone gave you a map leading to a great treasure which you can begin to pick up step by step all along the way, after having gone to the proper place. They told you this map was written by an extraordinary man having lived say 2500 years ago. Then you go to the proper place according to the map and following indications, you move ahead. And you already start finding pieces of the treasure, which you can pick up and enjoy, and you become much wealthier than you can recall having ever been. And it seems more is coming ahead, exactly as much as written on the map.

Then someone comes and says: 'There is no evidence that ancient man actually existed, there is no evidence he wrote any map himself'. What do you tell him?




I just smile

:anjali:


Very well said. :thumbsup:
Through many of samsara’s births I hasten seeking, finding not the builder of this house - pain is birth again, again. O builder of this house you’re seen, you shall not build a house again, all your beams have given away, rafters of the ridge decayed, mind to the unconditioned gone, exhaustion of craving has it reached.(Dhp - 153, 154)
User avatar
SDC
 
Posts: 868
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm
Location: North Jersey

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:52 am

:)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby alan » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:48 am

First off I'd tell him not to interrupt my shaving. A smooth face is very important to me.
Then I'd tell him to go away and not bother me again.
:jumping:
alan
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby bazzaman » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:31 am

.
Last edited by bazzaman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bazzaman
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:49 am

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby sainbhruvens » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:35 am

Ok, so anyone can give reply me if Buddhism existed in China since 200BCE how could it have been invented by the Greeks?
sainbhruvens
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:12 am

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:20 am

sainbhruvens wrote:Ok, so anyone can give reply me if Buddhism existed in China since 200BCE how could it have been invented by the Greeks?

Simple: Buddhism was not invented by the Greeks. Where did you get that idea from, anyway?

If anything, the learning went the other way - some ideas in classical Greek philosophy may have been influenced by Buddhism.
:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Fede » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:43 pm

..."Historicity"....?
The word alone offends me!

Yes, I'm aware it exists.
It still jars on the ear....
More grammatical and etymological short-cuts...
Well, I guess if Buddhism has evolved, so must a language.

But seriously? - what a dreadful word!
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
User avatar
Fede
 
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: The Heart of this "Green & Pleasant Land"...

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:34 pm

Fede wrote:..."Historicity"....?
The word alone offends me!

Yes, I'm aware it exists.
It still jars on the ear....
More grammatical and etymological short-cuts...
Well, I guess if Buddhism has evolved, so must a language.

But seriously? - what a dreadful word!

:console:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Hoo » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:33 pm

sainbhruvens wrote:Ok, so anyone can give reply me if Buddhism existed in China since 200BCE how could it have been invented by the Greeks?


There is speculation that the ancient Greek philosophies were communicated among learned peoples, just as were religious belief systems, etc. The flow wasn't one way, either, and the influence may have been East to West, as well as West to East. For an interesting read, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaximander gives the barest of outlines of one scenario. The exploits of the Persians, Hittites and Babylonians takes one further back, too.

JMHO, but the claim that any one was invented by the other ignores how information travelled, even when transportation was much more difficult. In ancient history of the mid and near East, textbook authors used to claim that every culture knew quite a bit about every other. There was always trade and conflict to encourage travel.

Just sharing a little bit that I've been exposed to.

With Metta,

Hoo
Hoo
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:24 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Historicity of the Buddha

Postby Bankei » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:56 am

sainbhruvens wrote:Ok, so anyone can give reply me if Buddhism existed in China since 200BCE how could it have been invented by the Greeks?


The Greeks were in India as early as around 400BC. I am not so sure if Buddhism reached China that early too. Do you have a reference?

Bankei
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Previous

Return to Early Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests