Good passages from the Bible.

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Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Individual » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:06 pm

I'm not a Christian, but I've read a fair amount of the Bible. Many comparisons have been made between Buddhism and Christianity. From time-to-time, I find interesting pieces of scripture that could've been written by a Buddhist as much as a Christian. This includes, however, "apocrypha" that is regarded as non-canonical by Christians.

Some stuff below:

2 Corinthians 4:16-18
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is impermanent, but what is unseen is eternal.


1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


1 John 4:7-8
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

And from the apocrypha...

Mary 4:22-23
The Savior said, All nature, all formations, all creatures exist in and with one another, and they will be resolved again into their own roots. For the nature of matter is resolved into the roots of its own nature alone.


Thomas 11
This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die.

That last passage seems to refute both eternalism and annihilationism.

And from the Gospel of Judas
One day Jesus was with his disciples in Judea, and he found them gathered together and seated in pious observance. When he approached his disciples, gathered together and seated and offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, he laughed.

The disciples said to him, “Master, why are you laughing at our prayer of thanksgiving? We have done what is right.”

He answered and said to them, “I am not laughing at you. You are not doing this because of your own will but because it is through this that your god will be praised."

They said, “Master, you are the son of our god.”

Jesus said to them, “How do you know me? Truly I say to you, no generation of the people that are among you will know me.”

Do you have any more to share?
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:19 pm

Individual wrote: Many comparisons have been made between Buddhism and Christianity.


Curious as to what kind of comparisons there have been?

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:21 pm

The main comparisons are between the moral aspects of love and compassion and patience

Simile of the saw and turn the other cheek for example

:namaste:
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Individual » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:25 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:
Individual wrote: Many comparisons have been made between Buddhism and Christianity.


Curious as to what kind of comparisons there have been?

:namaste:

You haven't heard of this before? See here or look on Google.

The most outrageous theories go so far as to suggest that Jesus spent his missing years in or around India, where he picked up Hindu and Buddhist ideas, that the Bible is a partial plagiarism of Buddhist texts (that there was never a distinct "Jesus" person, but it was merely the life of the Buddha absorbed into Jewish mythology, same as with Barlaam and Josaphat), and that early Christianity was heavily influenced by Theravadin monks in Greece, the "Therapeutae".
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:31 pm

I have heard this theory as well, seen a good documentary on it once.

Theory goes that in his missing years he went to india and studied with buddhist monks and hindus before returning to his homeland to teach.

There is another theory that he went to india then back home but survived the crucifixtion and returned to india again to die, there is a passage in a hindu texts that is suppost to be a reference to this


One day, Shalivahana, the chief of the Shakas, came to a snowy mountain (assumed to be in the Indian Himalayas). There, in the Land of the Hun (= Ladakh, a part of the Kushan empire), the powerful king saw a handsome man sitting on a mountain, who seemed to promise auspiciousness. His skin was like copper and he wore white garments. The king asked the holy man who he was. The other replied: 'I am called Isaputra (son of God), born of a virgin, minister of the non-believers, relentlessly in search of the truth.'
O king, lend your ear to the religion that I brought unto the non-believers ... Through justice, truth, meditation, and unity of spirit, man will find his way to Isa (God, in Sanskrit) who dwells in the centre of Light, who remains as constant as the sun, and who dissolves all transient things forever. The blissful image of Isa, the giver of happiness, was revealed in the heart; and I was called Isa-Masih (Jesus the Messiah).'"



Dont know if i believe it myself but is interesting theory that does have some evidence
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:38 pm

Individual wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:
Individual wrote: Many comparisons have been made between Buddhism and Christianity.


Curious as to what kind of comparisons there have been?

:namaste:

You haven't heard of this before? See here or look on Google.

The most outrageous theories go so far as to suggest that Jesus spent his missing years in or around India, where he picked up Hindu and Buddhist ideas, that the Bible is a partial plagiarism of Buddhist texts (that there was never a distinct "Jesus" person, but it was merely the life of the Buddha absorbed into Jewish mythology, same as with Barlaam and Josaphat), and that early Christianity was heavily influenced by Theravadin monks in Greece, the "Therapeutae".


Thats all news to me.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:44 pm

For me theres far too much in the pali canon to comprehend, let alone the study of another religous book. Im sure there is good stuff in there though.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Jechbi » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:26 pm

Personally, I think there is much in the Bible that is rich in meaning, but a lot of it is commonly misunderstood, both by Christians as well as non-Christians. Again and again, New Testament passages drive home a Christian understanding of Anatta, a true selflessness as the fruit of faith, the death of the Old Adam. The result is to become a little Christ, which might be seen as similar to the Mahayana notion of Buddha nature. The stumbling block in all of this is the underlying notion of an eternal soul, of course. But a lot of that is philosophical in nature. If one recognizes that wrong view is present, then it's possible to see glimpses of wisdom sprinkled across the Bible -- as well as in religious texts from other faiths, in my opinion.

John 3:3
“I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
This notion describes both something that occurs in the present moment as well as in a future lifetime (just like DO does, although obviously these 2 theories are not equivalent).

John 11:35
Jesus wept.
Very poignant. I don't believe there's an equivalent passage in the Buddhist canon about the Buddha weeping. In the Bible we see Jesus as being angry, passionate, desparate, loving, patient, and so on. He is a human being, yet he is held out as God at the same time. In this way, Christianity invites one to identify with that which is beyond oneself, to think, "Yes, I can be like Jesus," and yet to do so by examining oneself. That's why you get stuff like WWJD. For some, it can be very transformative.

For what it's worth.

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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Jechbi wrote:John 11:35
Jesus wept.
Very poignant. I don't believe there's an equivalent passage in the Buddhist canon about the Buddha weeping.


I get what your saying but I dont think that would of helped the Buddhas claim of having overcome all suffering. :lol:

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:48 pm

There are some who say an enlightened being can cry
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:49 pm

clw_uk wrote:There are some who say an enlightened being can cry


Yeah i guess it depends on the situation. Crying in joy or in sorrow? Would an enlightened being cry in sorrow? I would not think so because if we are talking about an arahant there is no sorrow. On the other side does an arahant experience joy? The joy of Nibbana maybe?

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:57 pm

I dont suscribe to the idea that arahants can cry myself because based on my understanding an arahant wouldnt cry because to cry in pain is aversion which the arahant no longer experiences, and to cry from joy is delight which the arahant no longer experiences because the danger of delight leading to dukkha
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:57 pm

the main difference of the passages which can be compared as similar is the meaning (here and now rather than the here after or vice versa).

as for the accounts of where jesus was in the missing years there are clues in the bible that he hadn't gone too far away from his home town, and certainly his father (Joseph) was still well known in the area so hadn't gone anywhere for too long, not to mention that he didn't fulfil the requirements of the old testament to be known as messiah/christ (both have the same meaning - anointed one - in different languages (Greek and Aramaic?)).

comparing the sayings removing the meaning or overall aim of the sayings is like calling a book a movie, they aren't the same thing and they shouldn't be viewed in the same light! Just because there are things which can be respected doesn't mean they are the same
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Annapurna » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:17 pm

I've also heard of the theory about Jesus years in India and teaching and dying there, after crucifixion, I watched some good ducumentaries about this on TV.

Corinthian 13 is my favorite from the Bible.

I also like what Jesus said: " What you do for the lowest of my brothers, this you do for me."

Compare: "He who attends on the sick attends on me," declared the Buddha, exhorting his disciples on the importance of ministering to the sick.

I also like the story of the Good Samaritian, who was a true example of compassion and selfless caring.
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Thanavuddho » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:32 pm

clw_uk wrote:I dont suscribe to the idea that arahants can cry myself because based on my understanding an arahant wouldnt cry because to cry in pain is aversion which the arahant no longer experiences, and to cry from joy is delight which the arahant no longer experiences because the danger of delight leading to dukkha


http://www.luangta.com/English/site/talks/talk17-6-45.pdf
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:53 pm

Thank you Santeri for the link, i have read some of his work before but i still maintain that an arahant would not cry. It doesnt accord with my understanding of the Dhamma nor with what I have read in the Suttas

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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Annapurna » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:50 pm

A Bodhisattva would cry out of compassion.
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby clw_uk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:00 pm

Annabel wrote:A Bodhisattva would cry out of compassion.


A bodhisattva has not realised nibbana so there is a possibilty that they would, an arahant or buddha however would not. At least according to my understanding of the Dhamma.

I have started a thread on this topic

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=629

:namaste:
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Individual » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:03 am

Annabel wrote:I've also heard of the theory about Jesus years in India and teaching and dying there, after crucifixion, I watched some good ducumentaries about this on TV.

Corinthian 13 is my favorite from the Bible.

I also like what Jesus said: " What you do for the lowest of my brothers, this you do for me."

Compare: "He who attends on the sick attends on me," declared the Buddha, exhorting his disciples on the importance of ministering to the sick.

I also like the story of the Good Samaritian, who was a true example of compassion and selfless caring.

That reminds me of another passage I neglected to mention.

James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
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Re: Good passages from the Bible.

Postby Ben » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:56 am

Annabel wrote:A Bodhisattva would cry out of compassion.


How do you know Annabel?
Do you know of a sutta reference where the Buddha retold an anecdote from one of his past lives where he shed tears and explained that it was out of compassion? A textual reference is really the only way we can know, unless one meets a bodhisatva, knows the being is a bodhisatva, and then asks the being whether they cry out of compassion.
I think it is also a mistake to associate compassion with crying. Getting overwhelmed by the suffering of others is actually aversion, not compassion.
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