Paramatthaka Sutta

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Paramatthaka Sutta

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:00 am

Snp 4.5 PTS: Sn 796-803
Paramatthaka Sutta: Supreme
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu

When dwelling on views
as "supreme,"
a person makes them
the utmost thing
in the world,
&, from that, calls
all others inferior
and so he's not free
from disputes.
When he sees his advantage
in what's seen, heard, sensed,
or in precepts & practices,
seizing it there
he sees all else
as inferior.

That, too, say the skilled,
is a binding knot: that
in dependence on which
you regard another
as inferior.
So a monk shouldn't be dependent
on what's seen, heard, or sensed,
or on precepts & practices;
nor should he conjure a view in the world
in connection with knowledge
or precepts & practices;
shouldn't take himself
to be "equal";
shouldn't think himself
inferior or superlative.

Abandoning what he had embraced,
abandoning self,[1]
not clinging,
he doesn't make himself dependent
even in connection with knowledge;
doesn't follow a faction
among those who are split;
doesn't fall back
on any view whatsoever.

One who isn't inclined
toward either side
— becoming or not-,
here or beyond —
who has no entrenchment
when considering what's grasped among doctrines,
hasn't the least
preconceived perception
with regard to what's seen, heard, or sensed.
By whom, with what,
should he be pigeonholed
here in the world?
— this brahman
who hasn't adopted views.

They don't conjure, don't yearn,
don't adhere even to doctrines.

A brahman not led
by precepts or practices,
gone to the beyond
— Such —
doesn't fall back.



Note
1.Self... what he had embraced: two meanings of the Pali word, attam.
See also: MN 72; AN 10.93.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Paramatthaka Sutta

Postby Richard » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:39 pm

This sutta can be used to raise a question: what is the difference between being entrenched in views, as described here, and following "right view"? Everyone needs a viewpoint to work with, but it's easy to start thinking that holding certain views is the most important thing. But the only true "Supreme" is Nibbana; all views and pracrices are a means to that.

This is just a beginning--would be glad to hear some other "views."
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Re: Paramatthaka Sutta

Postby Agent » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:33 pm

Just thinking out loud...
I find it interesting that people with right view are not bound by it. At first it seems to me that that is what defines right view. You can challenge the view of someone with right view and they do not feel upset or diminished by you doing so. But does not being attached to a view automatically make it a right view? I think non-attachment itself is a right view, but the view one is not attached to may still be a wrong view. So how to know if one really is holding a right view? I think comparison to the scripture can only go so far because it's easy to be deluded into thinking you properly understand what the Buddha intended. Experience and meditation may be the determining factors.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā.
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Re: Paramatthaka Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:41 am

Greetings,

I like this...

not clinging,
he doesn't make himself dependent
even in connection with knowledge;
doesn't follow a faction
among those who are split;
doesn't fall back
on any view whatsoever.

... but then, I would.

:tongue:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Paramatthaka Sutta

Postby Anicca » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:57 am

No views here - just questions - Isn't this about not clinging to the raft that takes you to the far shore of the stream once you cross over the raging flood? What good is climbing up the ladder to access the roof if you never let go of the ladder? Isn't Right View part of the *Path*, ie - what you step off of, abandon, when you reach the end of it all? :thinking: Doesn't the sutta address three different types of beings - a person, a monk and a braman?
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Re: Paramatthaka Sutta

Postby fig tree » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:05 am

Richard wrote:This sutta can be used to raise a question: what is the difference between being entrenched in views, as described here, and following "right view"?

That seems like a great question, and maybe it's because not so many of us aren't entrenched in views that it's hard to find a good answer. I really like MN60, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.060.than.html, though, on this issue. It suggests to me that one can commit to acting on a certain view without pretending to know that it's correct or that alternative points of view are necessarily invalid, and that this may be the way to go unless and until you know.

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