Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Sekha
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Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Sekha » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:44 am

To which extent can one state rightly that there was no evolution of the Pali langage as well as the content of the tipitaka from the day they reached the shore of Sri Lanka?
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retrofuturist
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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:48 am

Greetings Dukkhanirodha,

There are expressions, compounds and such which only appear in the commentarial literature.

If one accepts that these commentaries were written in Sri Lanka, then it would seem that the utilisation of Pali did continue to evolve upon reaching Sri Lanka.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby gavesako » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:08 pm

There is the obvious "sanskritization" of Pali in the centuries in which later commentaries and manuals were written.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Sekha » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:01 pm

Thank you for your answers.

But what about the evolution of the content of the tipitaka? I think people generally believe it to have been preserved thoroughly... to which extent is that right?
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

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Kare
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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Kare » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:20 pm

Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Sekha » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:47 pm

Thanks a lot for this answer.

But it calls another question: what do we know of the time when the Agamas where composed?
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:51 pm

Greetings Dukkhanirodha,

Would you like us to move this topic to the Early Buddhism forum?

It is likely to be difficult to pursue your line of inquiry here in detail given the constraints of this particular sub-forum.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:23 am

Hello, Dukkhanirodha,
I asked similar questions on e-sangha when it still existed and Ven Pannasikkhara was most helpful.
The gist of what he said, as far as I can remember, agrees with what Kare has said. Further, that no-one has ever attempted a close comparison of the whole of the two canons because there is just too much material but partial studies show that they do appear to agree very closely.

I did a quick search. Google still lists that e-sangha thread but then, of course, we can't get to it. This - - is the most relevant result from the search.

:namaste:
Kim

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Sekha » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:22 am

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby Bankei » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:23 am

-----------------------
Bankei

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby gavesako » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:32 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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Re: Evolution of Pali and the content of the tipitaka

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:48 pm

Comparisons with the Gandhari scrolls show a likelihood that the Nikaya format was in place circa 10-30 AD (which is to say, at least the Fours section of an Anguttara Nikaya).

What are the chances that the Nikaya format was developed as part of a plan to write it all down? I believe Bhikkhu Bodhi remarks in the Samyutta Nikaya introduction that it's possible the Samyutta was a compilation of Suttas from other, earlier collections which were organized into vaggas by topic, or in the case of the Anguttara by numbered reference. Ancient stuff, and getting quite close to the Blessed One's time.

It does mean the abhidhamma was developed relatively early, but it's interesting that the abhidhammas of various schools differ greatly while SuttaVinaya differs to a vastly lesser extent.


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