Seeking some advice

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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maverick
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Seeking some advice

Post by maverick »

Its been few years I have been practicing Vipassana meditation as taught by SN Goenka, and i am planning to become a monk after few years from now. But i do not know any monasteries, teacher who follow the same technique here in United States and focus mainly on mediation rather then books. I like to follow the same technique i have been practicing. I don't know if it is good to switch to different technique. so can anyone give me some advice on good place, teachers for me.
From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, enough to be RELEASED.

The path is not about becoming a better person — it is about putting an end to becoming
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Ben
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Ben »

Hi maverick

When I was at Dhammagiri 20 years ago a number of students approached SN Goenka with regard to ordination and I know that it was a fairly common occurance for some of his serious 'old' students to discuss ordination aspirations with him. When pressed, he would recommend some monasteries in Sri Lanka and a co-meditator friend of mine went to ordain as a bhikkhuni in Sri Lanka in 1990. I also understand that in recent years there is/has been at least one bhikkhu, in Burma, who is an assistant teacher within the SN Goenka 'tradition'. My recommendation to you is to make contact with the head teacher within your country and discuss your aspirations with him and/or her. I'm sure they would be able to give you some advice with regards to where you could ordain and still continnue your practice.
All the very best with your plans!
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Brizzy

Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Brizzy »

Ben wrote:Hi maverick

When I was at Dhammagiri 20 years ago a number of students approached SN Goenka with regard to ordination and I know that it was a fairly common occurance for some of his serious 'old' students to discuss ordination aspirations with him. When pressed, he would recommend some monasteries in Sri Lanka and a co-meditator friend of mine went to ordain as a bhikkhuni in Sri Lanka in 1990. I also understand that in recent years there is/has been at least one bhikkhu, in Burma, who is an assistant teacher within the SN Goenka 'tradition'. My recommendation to you is to make contact with the head teacher within your country and discuss your aspirations with him and/or her. I'm sure they would be able to give you some advice with regards to where you could ordain and still continnue your practice.
All the very best with your plans!
metta

Ben
Hi Ben

I know this does not help the OP, but my jaw dropped when I read your post. Is there really an ordained Bhikkhu who holds an ASSISTANT TEACHERS post in the SN GOENKA tradition. He would presumably be subordinate to Mr Goenka, who has a heirarchy of teaching positions up to Acharya's and then himself. My real consternation is that an ordained monk should place himself in an inferior position (spiritually) to a layperson within a structured organisation/group/sangha.

:smile:
Kenshou
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Kenshou »

A good monk wouldn't care, I think.
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Goofaholix
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Goofaholix »

Brizzy wrote: I know this does not help the OP, but my jaw dropped when I read your post. Is there really an ordained Bhikkhu who holds an ASSISTANT TEACHERS post in the SN GOENKA tradition. He would presumably be subordinate to Mr Goenka, who has a heirarchy of teaching positions up to Acharya's and then himself. My real consternation is that an ordained monk should place himself in an inferior position (spiritually) to a layperson within a structured organisation/group/sangha.

:smile:
I understand It's not so uncommon for monks to attend his retreats as students.

Do you think a robe automatically endows a superior teaching ability?
Last edited by Goofaholix on Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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― Ajahn Chah
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Goofaholix »

maverick wrote:Its been few years I have been practicing Vipassana meditation as taught by SN Goenka, and i am planning to become a monk after few years from now. But i do not know any monasteries, teacher who follow the same technique here in United States and focus mainly on mediation rather then books. I like to follow the same technique i have been practicing. I don't know if it is good to switch to different technique. so can anyone give me some advice on good place, teachers for me.
The technique taught by Goenka's lineage is mostly taught within a lay movement. I've never heard of a monastery specialising in his technique, so if Ben's advice doesn't bear fruit I'd look at ordaining in the Ajahn Chah lineage. They are very flexible as far as meditation technique is concerned and many will have practiced Goenka style body sweeping, so you should be able to practice what you want to find someone who can give you advice.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Ben
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Ben »

Hi Brizzy,
Brizzy wrote:I know this does not help the OP, but my jaw dropped when I read your post.
I sometimes have that effect on people!
(joke)
Is there really an ordained Bhikkhu who holds an ASSISTANT TEACHERS post in the SN GOENKA tradition.
If my information is correct. It was a few years ago when I was communicating with an old student at Dhamma Aloka in Victoria who was making plans to ordain. He told me of a Bhikkhu AT in Burma. I've heard of others but I never sustained the interest to find out the details from AT friends.
He would presumably be subordinate to Mr Goenka,
To be honest, I am not sure. I have noticed a protocol when bhikkhus and anagarikas join courses but I'm not au fait with the details or the nature of the relationship is.
My real consternation is that an ordained monk should place himself in an inferior position (spiritually) to a layperson within a structured organisation/group/sangha.
As I said, I'm not sure what the relationship is and whether a bhikkhu AT is infact subordinate to Mr Goenka. What I've noticed is Goenkaji's deep respect for the ordained sangha and of the sangha's respect for him. What i imagine is that an ordained member of the sangha would utilise the centre facilities, instructions and discourses in the same way as lay assistant teachers do.

You might be surprised to know that the organisation is less structured than you might imagine. Mr Goenka retired from teaching some years ago. While I can't comment on the governance of Dhammagiri, I know that local centres are managed by a trust consisting of serious 'old students' appointed for a fixed term of one or two years and nominated by assitant teachers and existing trust members. ATs cannot become trust members and the provision of instruction is separate from centre management and development.
Anyway, this is all tangential to the OP.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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Ben
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Ben »

Goofaholix wrote:
maverick wrote:Its been few years I have been practicing Vipassana meditation as taught by SN Goenka, and i am planning to become a monk after few years from now. But i do not know any monasteries, teacher who follow the same technique here in United States and focus mainly on mediation rather then books. I like to follow the same technique i have been practicing. I don't know if it is good to switch to different technique. so can anyone give me some advice on good place, teachers for me.
The technique taught by Goenka's lineage is mostly taught within a lay movement. I've never heard of a monastery specialising in his technique, so if Ben's advice doesn't bear fruit I'd look at ordaining in the Ajahn Chah lineage. They are very flexible as far as meditation technique is concerned and many will have practiced Goenka style body sweeping, so you should be able to practice what you want to find someone who can give you advice.
That's a good point, Goof! Actually, Bhikkhu Appichatto might be someone of interest to contact. My understanding is that Bhikkhu Appichatto's practice is informed from the works of Bhikkhu Nyanaponika and others and I think his individual meditative practice is independent of the monastery where he resides. Perhaps I am wrong - but I do recommend sending Bhante a pm if he doesn't contribute to this thread.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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maverick
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by maverick »

Hi Ben,
How could i contact Bhikkhu Appichatto & Bhikkhu Nyanaponika, do you have email address ?
From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, enough to be RELEASED.

The path is not about becoming a better person — it is about putting an end to becoming
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by tiltbillings »

maverick wrote:Hi Ben,
How could i contact Bhikkhu Appichatto & Bhikkhu Nyanaponika, do you have email address ?
A seance would be required for contact with Ven Nyanaponika (unless there is another I did not know about). Bhikkhu Appichatto can be PM'd here: http://dhammawheel.com/memberlist.php?m ... ofile&u=63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Ben
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Ben »

Hi Maverick

Nyanaponika Thera died years ago but his teachings are available in books. His classic "Heart of Buddhist Meditation": http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Buddhist-Me ... 0877280738" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is very worthwhile.

Bhikkhu Appichatto is a member of this forum, you can send him a pm via his profile page: http://www.dhammawheel.com/memberlist.p ... ofile&u=63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Sekha »

Ben wrote: I also understand that in recent years there is/has been at least one bhikkhu, in Burma, who is an assistant teacher within the SN Goenka 'tradition'.
In case it would be helpful, I heard a similar story, plus I was given a name and adress:

Sayadaw Pyinyazawta

Thephyu Tawya Dhamma Yeiktha
Thephyu village
Hmawby district

I am also interested about this. I did not look further as I googled the name "Pyinyazawta" and didn't like what I found, although it could have been someone else entirely. So I thought maybe this monk had separated from Goenka's lineage to teach his own way, in which case I was not interested. As I see Ben says he would still be in Goenka's organization, I will dig deeper on the issue and then make you know what I find.

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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by jcsuperstar »

monks learning from lay people is not as uncommon as you'd think, especially in Thailand where there have been some prominent female teachers. also i believe there are suttas where lay people have taught dhamma to monks as well.
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Shonin »

Being a monk or a layperson is matter of life situation, not a matter of rank nor necessarily a matter of attainment. There are many highly realised lay teachers who may or may not have spent time as a monk or nun.
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Ben
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Re: Seeking some advice

Post by Ben »

Hi Dukkhanirodha

I'll try and find out from my contacts as well.

Hi JC
monks learning from lay people is not as uncommon as you'd think,
Apparently Ledi Sayadaw when he was on his death-bed told his disciple monks to continue to take meditation instruction from his lay-disciple, Saya Thetgyi, a farmer.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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