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Goenka technique - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Goenka technique

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:02 am

Great report, FijiNut!
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

upekkha
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby upekkha » Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:34 am

Great report Fijinut!

If you read the Progress of Insight I believe you will see that your experiences line up quite nicely and clearly with the ancient maps.

After the stage of "Knowledge of Arising and Passing away" (What you report experiencing on day 4), there are stages which are rightly named (Knowledge of) Dissolution, misery, disgust, desire for deliverenace and re-observation (toughest one yet), before one reaches the 'Knowledge of Equanimity regarding formations' stage. (After crossing the 4th nyana you will probably begin to feel a strong pull towards spiritual practice, desire to renounce to world and dedicate more and more time to spritual practice, feeling that the world is unsatisfactory.. these have been reported by many many meditators crossing the infamous 4th nyana - do you find this in your own experience?)

In my own experience of practicing both body-scanning as well as other Vipassana techniques intensly, body-scanning becomes less effective after the 4th Nyana (Arising and Passing away) in those stages called 'Dukkha Nyanas' since one needs to objectify many mental objects as well as physical ones, and favouring body formations over mental formations seems to cause a stagnation.
Since all formations are anatta, you cannot 'stop' wanting to progress, or thinking about progress, or wanting some other experience, these are just mental phenomena arising on their own and are as 'holy' as any other sensation or vibration. One needs to see through them, objectify them, in order to continue making progress. One cannot fight craving, craving needs to be seen for what it is. Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta. You do not create craving, craving arises in a causal manner as any other mind/body formation.
I suggest trying some Mahasi noting, you'd be surprised how such a simple technique can bring about profound progress in short time (even during daily life). At least that's what I found in my own experience.

Enjoy!

rowyourboat
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:28 pm

Hi Fijinut

Thanks for reporting back. I hope you don't mind me asking - did you gain an understanding of anatta in your experience?

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

fijiNut
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby fijiNut » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:06 pm

ryb,
If that is a roundabout way to ask about attainments, I can honestly say.. no. Nothing to proclaim. :tongue:

Just to say that there were these states of mind that was experienced, and just about it.
I would be even sceptical to say the experience entailed anything special. I can't be sure.

But taking the results of practice out of context of just a 10 day retreat into daily life, the mind is very cautious about breaking sila, the discursive mind calms down extremely quickly, and also confidence in the Path is quite strong, one feels one can dedicate one's whole life to this.

vitellius
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby vitellius » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:46 pm


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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:15 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

vitellius
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: Goenka technique

Postby vitellius » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:46 pm

Hello Ben,

I understand that in Goenka tradition "bhanga" is not associated with jhanas. It is my personal opinion that state called "bhanga" by S.N. Goenka and his students is the same or near that what is called "jhana" in some other traditions.

Anyway, may be you can recommend texts or dhammatalks where "bhanga" is described in details (more or less) by S.N. Goenka or somebody else from his tradition? Then I would be able to elaborate on this topic or to correct my opinion.

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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:46 am

Hi Oleksandr,
As a matter of interest, what is your opinion based on?
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Brizzy

Re: Goenka technique

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:51 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:54 am


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Re: Goenka technique

Postby cooran » Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:57 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Brizzy

Re: Goenka technique

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:34 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Goenka technique

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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:48 am


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Re: Goenka technique

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Brizzy

Re: Goenka technique

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:11 am


PeterB
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby PeterB » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:12 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:30 am


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:09 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

upekkha
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby upekkha » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:15 pm

I find this whole 'bhanga: jhana or not jhana' discussion to be faulty, since it is too general.
It's not like you are analyzing someone's description of a certain meditation experience and then commenting on what you think that was, you are talking in broad terms.
'Bhanga' can mean different things to different people. 'Jhana' can mean different things to different people (Sutta Jhana vs. Visudhimagga Jhana).

If you take the 'Vipassana Jhana' approach (Mahasi Sayadaw), then the experience of Bhanga is within the 2nd Vipassana Jhana.
But from my own experience, what Goenka calls 'Bhanga' can be experienced in different ways. You could have a 'Bhanga-like' experience in the First Nyana (Mind & Body) where you feel the whole body as vibrations, but you can also have a 'Bhanga' experience (which is probably what Goenka means) at the 4th nyana (Arising and passing away), which feels much more intense than Nyana 1. It could be felt as the whole body exploding into vibrations, lack of orientation of body and so on.

It is simply a matter of one's own personal experience, and talking so broadly is really point-less, I think :)
:namaste:


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