Disrespect

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
User avatar
Hunter
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Disrespect

Post by Hunter »

I see that in Theravada counries that many people talk about disrespect of the images of Buddha and that some people, like the music artist Akon, are banned from such countries for disrespect. I have also heard of other things too regarding disrespect in theravada countires. So what im wondering is, what constitutes disrespect towards an image of Buddha and what would the consequences be?
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Disrespect

Post by jcsuperstar »

pointing your feet at the buddha, being naked in front of the buddha things like that. mostly people will just think youre an a@#hole, uncultured, rude etc
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
Hunter
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: Disrespect

Post by Hunter »

But are there any Karmic Consequences? Did Buddha ever talk about this subject or is it not really of importance. The way I look at it is that the image of a Buddha represents his qualities and his teachings and should therefore be respected. I know that there are many people out there who have images of Buddha adorning their house and use the statues for decoration. Im sure the same people have also pointed their feet at the statue, and been naked around the statue sense they see it as decoration. What would happen to them? Would they have severe consequences or do they have to intend to be disrespectful?
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Disrespect

Post by jcsuperstar »

weeeelllll there were no Buddha images at the time of the Buddha so he never taught about them. i think we have a thread going on right now about this also maybe you can look into that one see what others think. basically though your mental state determines everything so it is with mind that you make wholesome or unwholesome kamma.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
Monkey Mind
Posts: 538
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Disrespect

Post by Monkey Mind »

Okay, I couldn't immediately find the other thread you mentioned, so I will ask my question here. I was gifted a coffee mug with an image of Buddha (face of a statue), and a quote from the Dhammapada. It is a very pretty mug. I received some feedback from Tibetan practitioners that the mug might be offensive to some traditions. What about the Theravada crowd? Will people think I am "an a@#hole, uncultured, rude etc"? Or is it not a big deal from the Theravadan POV?
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Disrespect

Post by jcsuperstar »

theravada isnt one big crowd, it would depend on if youre spending time with certain ethic buddhists, many american buddhists wouldnt care though. i wouldnt
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Disrespect

Post by Modus.Ponens »

I don't see how a mug with the image of the Buddha would be disrespectful.

The Buddha talked about this. in the Vinaya it is said that he didn't want anyone to build images of him.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
Hunter
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: Disrespect

Post by Hunter »

Modus could you post the vinaya where Buddha talks about having no images of him. I have heard of this but I could never find it. Thanks!
the Buddha said :

"Intention, monks, is karma, I say. Having willed, one acts through body, speech and mind."
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Disrespect

Post by tiltbillings »

Hunter wrote:I see that in Theravada counries that many people talk about disrespect of the images of Buddha and that some people, like the music artist Akon, are banned from such countries for disrespect. I have also heard of other things too regarding disrespect in theravada countires. So what im wondering is, what constitutes disrespect towards an image of Buddha and what would the consequences be?
When I was in Thailand in the mid 70's a couple Mormon missionary guys thought it would be cool have their photo taken sitting on one of Thailand's giant Buddha statues. They got six months in a fine local lock-up, which is a good wake up call to the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mormon church to train these dumb kids they send out their to be a bit more culturaly sensitive.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
User avatar
Modus.Ponens
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:38 am
Location: Gallifrey

Re: Disrespect

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Hunter wrote:Modus could you post the vinaya where Buddha talks about having no images of him. I have heard of this but I could never find it. Thanks!
I don't know where it is in the vinaya. Maybe other members can find it. The best I found was this:

J. C. Huntington, who claims that the Buddha image had come into being in Buddha's own lifetime, quotes a passage from the Vinaya of the Sarvastivadins in his Studies in Buddhist Art of South Asia under "The Origin of the Buddha Image". The passage is an indirect injunction against his image making, but the words used in it comprise as much a sanction for it. In the passage, Anathapindika asks the Great Lord," World honored one, if images of yours are not allowed to be made, pray, may we not at least make images of Bodhisattvas in attendance upon you?" The Buddha gives his assent to it

I wonder if this passage is found in the Theravada Vinaya. I always thought it was from the Theravada Vinaya.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Disrespect

Post by tiltbillings »

Modus.Ponens wrote:
I wonder if this passage is found in the Theravada Vinaya. I always thought it was from the Theravada Vinaya.
Not that I have ever seen.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Disrespect

Post by mikenz66 »

Monkey Mind wrote:Okay, I couldn't immediately find the other thread you mentioned,
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4655" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Disrespect

Post by kc2dpt »

Hunter wrote:So what im wondering is, what constitutes disrespect towards an image of Buddha and what would the consequences be?
A disrespectful attitude will have consequences, such as ending up close-minded to teachings you might hear.

If a teacher thinks you are disrespectful, either through things you say or things you do, he might be less inclined to help you; he may feel his time is better spent elsewhere. Or he may not care. It depends on the teacher.

Then there are cultural norms. This has nothing to do with Buddhism and everything to do with people growing up in different places. If you do something which another culture considers a sign of disrespect, such as pointing your feet at a Buddha image, they might become angry, or they might ignore you, or they might pay it no mind since you are from a different culture. It would depend in the individual.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 19932
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Disrespect

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Peter,
Peter wrote: If a teacher thinks you are disrespectful, either through things you say or things you do, he might be less inclined to help you; he may feel his time is better spent elsewhere. Or he may not care. It depends on the teacher.
This is a very good point that works on various levels.

We recently imported a new teacher from Thailand. In our conversations he has said he can tell I'm serious because I do my best to obey the conventions, to be respectful, and so on. On a recent retreat I asked him how he could tell whether I was doing something correctly (I don't recall what it was exactly) and he said he could just tell by looking at how I moved and behaved. There was no need to ask me questions about it.

Furthermore, many of these conventions are useful aids to mindfulness. One bows when one enters the hall. One tries to remember not to talk loudly or harshly, to pay respect to the monks and the older people. All really useful for refining one's attitude and mindfulness.

And, of course, JC puts it well:
jcsuperstar wrote:pointing your feet at the buddha, being naked in front of the buddha things like that. mostly people will just think youre an a@#hole, uncultured, rude etc
And you won't get much in the way of good interactions if you are see as an a@#hole...

Mike
User avatar
withoutcolour
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Disrespect

Post by withoutcolour »

Gee I hope being naked in front of a Buddha statue isn't bad because my five Buddha statues watch me get dressed every day!!! :popcorn:

Anyway. The Buddha image isn't really the Buddha, don't be too attached to the image.
Obviously be respectful.
As mentioned before, in certain countries you shouldn't point your feet at the Buddha or take photos with it.
And again, Buddha never wanted statues erected of him, or to be worshiped really. The point of a Buddha statue, at least the way I was taught, is to remind us to be mindful, compassionate, and of the Buddha's teachings. Also, I was taught that bowing at statues of the Buddha is representation of bowing at one's own potential to be a Buddha, one's own compassion and wisdom, and one's potential attainments.

Bottom line is, in public just follow the local customs as to what's respectful.

-wc
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
sabbe sattā sukhita hontu
Post Reply