The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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retrofuturist
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Element,

No, I didn't have a chance to, and then I forgot about it. :o

I have however read (twice) what he had to say in (the full book form of) Practical Dependent Origination about the subject.

Is there anything about it in those talks, over and above that?

Metta,
Retro. :)
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halwilson
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by halwilson »

Element et al,

It's been years since I've read it, but Peter Jackson's book, Buddhadasa: Theravada Buddhism and Modernist Reform in Thailand should be of interest to those participating in this discussion. http://tinyurl.com/ba557e

Cheers, Hal
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Ceisiwr
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Ceisiwr »

What was his teachings reguarding Kamma.

Since he didnt teach it as part of dependent origination what was his view reguarding kamma being effective past a physical death? Did he state that it ended or that it carried on or didnt he specify?

Also what was his views reguarding the devas, hungry-shades etc, did he take them to be objective beings or just simply mental states?
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Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
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Element

Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Element »

clw_uk wrote:What was his teachings reguarding Kamma.

Also what was his views reguarding the devas, hungry-shades etc, did he take them to be objective beings or just simply mental states?
Hi Craig

Buddhadasa rarely taught about kamma. For Buddhadasa, kamma is a moral teaching and is simply about action and its result.

However, there is the talk Kamma in Buddhism, where Buddhadasa gives his views about kamma.

Buddhadasa also talks about kamma in the book Buddhadhamma for Students at quesions 14 and 21.

Regarding the realms of existance, Buddhadasa considered these to be psychological. This we can read in many books, such is question 47 in Buddhadhamma for Students.

I consider Buddhadhamma for Students the best book for those interested in learning about Buddhadasa's basic views.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Ceisiwr »

Thank you for the links, it is a very insightful book both into the dhamma and Buddhadasa's own teachings.

One problem I have though with the notion of Devas etc being purely psychological is the distinct presenation of them as actual living beings within the Suttas. I can see how they can be seen as both however.

Do you think he held them to be completely psychological or was this just focused on as a more important aspect.
“The teacher willed that this world appear to me
as impermanent, unstable, insubstantial.
Mind, let me leap into the victor’s teaching,
carry me over the great flood, so hard to pass.”
Element

Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Element »

clw_uk wrote:One problem I have though with the notion of Devas etc being purely psychological is the distinct presenation of them as actual living beings within the Suttas. I can see how they can be seen as both however.
A deva is a human being. However, like the Buddha, Mogallana and Devadata, some devas have some supernormal powers.

However, some of these devas with supernormal powers do not believe in the Buddha-Dhamma.

Like Christian angels, they believe in Godliness rather than vipassana truth.

Thus an angel prefers to teach humanity, for example, about eternal life with Jesus rather than the doctrine of impermanence.

They do this because they believe it is a more effective way to remedy suffering for those human beings.
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tiltbillings
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by tiltbillings »

A deva is a human being.
Since when?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Element »

tiltbillings wrote:Since when?
Since always. :alien:
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Ben
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Ben »

Element wrote:
clw_uk wrote:One problem I have though with the notion of Devas etc being purely psychological is the distinct presenation of them as actual living beings within the Suttas. I can see how they can be seen as both however.
A deva is a human being. However, like the Buddha, Mogallana and Devadata, some devas have some supernormal powers.

However, some of these devas with supernormal powers do not believe in the Buddha-Dhamma.

Like Christian angels, they believe in Godliness rather than vipassana truth.

Thus an angel prefers to teach humanity, for example, about eternal life with Jesus rather than the doctrine of impermanence.

They do this because they believe it is a more effective way to remedy suffering for those human beings.
Do you have any support for this?
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by jcsuperstar »

ive read zen texts that explain the devas and ghosts etc in these sort of ways, for example one who is controled by their emotions, cravings etc is an animal since animals are controled similarily by instincts, one who hates themself is a preta and so on

so its not just a buddhadasa thing,
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tiltbillings
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by tiltbillings »

Element: A deva is a human being.
Element wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Since when?
Since always.
Okay, and your textual source for claiming that devas are human beings is?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Element

Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Element »

Ben wrote:Do you have any support for this?
Do you have any support for the contrary?

Have you met human beings like the Buddha with supernormal power who can communicate by mind?

Have you met non-human beings communcating with bhikkhus? :alien:
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tiltbillings
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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by tiltbillings »

Element wrote:
Ben wrote:Do you have any support for this?
Do you have any support for the contrary?

Have you met human beings like the Buddha with supernormal power who can communicate by mind?

Have you met non-human beings communcating with bhikkhus? :alien:
That really is not an answer. You have claimed that devas are human beings. It is up to you to support your claim.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Element

Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Element »

tiltbillings wrote:Okay, and your textual source for claiming that devas are human beings is?
This is not a Classical Theravada thread.

However, there is the text when just after Buddha was awakened, he was asked: "Are you are deva, are you a gandhabba, etc,?"

Clearly the Buddha was not flying in the sky with wings when he was asked these questions. He was simply walking with serenity and radiance.

Further, the Buddha answered: "I am awake".

Funny how Westerners come to Buddhism ('religion of awakened wisdom') but have still not overcome their superstitions picked up from the Bible, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, watching alien science fiction movies, etc.

To be a sotapanna, one must at least show some modicum of rational intelligence and abandon superstition.

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Re: The teachings of Bhikkhu Buddhadasa

Post by Element »

tiltbillings wrote:That really is not an answer. You have claimed that devas are human beings. It is up to you to support your claim.
Buddha said his teaching is "sanditiko..... paccatum veditabo vinnuhi".

My answer is an answer.

However, your response is bullying harrassment. :spy:
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