Can you identify this object?

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Can you identify this object?

Postby Bnii » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:24 pm

I recently purchased this item but when I got it home I really started wondering what it was. I tried to look up the meaning behind the images but I'm coming up short. On the top part there is what I assume to be a running or jumping deer (or perhaps it's a goat?) and on both sides of the bell there is what seems to be a three faced elephant.
photo-2.jpg
photo-2.jpg (125.03 KiB) Viewed 1727 times
What is it and where should I put this?


Thanks for your help, I wasn't sure where to ask this!! Forgive me if this is the wrong place.
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Sekha » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:06 am

well I think this is a black bell. Maybe you should put it besides your main entry,

...

or perhaps either throw it to the garbage or give it to somebody

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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Bnii » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:19 am

Well that was profoundly insightful as to the meaning of the symbols.......
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby bodom » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:22 am

Bnii wrote:Well that was profoundly insightful as to the meaning of the symbols.......


And that was a profoundly rude response. Maybe you should ask the person you bought it from. Im sorry to dissapoint you but this is not Antiques Road Show.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Sobeh » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:24 am

The elephant might be Airavata, Indra's mount. If so, it gives the piece its theme.
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Bnii » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:53 am

bodom wrote:
Bnii wrote:Well that was profoundly insightful as to the meaning of the symbols.......


And that was a profoundly rude response. Maybe you should ask the person you bought it from. Im sorry to dissapoint you but this is not Antiques Road Show.

:anjali:


As is your response and the original response. I already said I'm sorry if this was the wrong forum but it sort of looked like it belonged in a little shrine. I didn't ask how much it cost. I asked if anyone knew what the symbols were. I didn't ask for sarcasm or anything else. If the post was in an inappropriate forum a simple message saying that would have sufficed. Instead I have people going out of their way to make me feel like I've inconvenienced them by telling me it isn't the Antiques Road Show and that the item is a bell. By the way, it's disappoint and not dissapoint.
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Ben » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:13 am

Let's all just calm down and return to topic.

First of all, Bnii, welcome to Dhamma Wheel.
I am no expert on east-asian symbolism but the elephant isn't one that I have seen before in conjunction with Theravadin art. I have seen the deer, but they are usually together, facing each other with a dhammacakka (Dhamma Wheel) between them.
It could be a timepiece used in a temple - but equally it may not. The gongs I am used to seeing are the flat Burmese brass gongs suspended from a rope.

gong.jpg
gong.jpg (2.08 KiB) Viewed 1687 times


kind regards

Ben
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby appicchato » Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:58 am

Yes, welcome Bnii...pay the rude, sarcastic, insensiitive remarks no mind...it's human nature...and everywhere...this website does have many positive qualities...

Be well...
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Monkey Mind » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:16 am

Image
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Monkey Mind » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:19 am

Image
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:22 am

Good find, Monkey Mind. Maybe it is the deer from Deer Park, of the First Sermon of the Buddha.
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Ben » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:31 am

Well done, Monkeymind!
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Monkey Mind » Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:33 am

Deer are a direct reference to the Buddha's first teaching in the Deer Park, Sarnath, also called Dharmachakra Parivartan. The suggestion is that so wondrous was the Buddha's appearance and peaceful his presence that even the animals came to listen. In the Tibetan tradition, a monastery which holds the Kangyur and Tengyur collections of texts would have this symbol of deer on both sides of the Dharma-wheel on the roof.


The Precious Elephant is a symbol of the strength of the mind in Buddhism. Exhibiting noble gentleness, the precious elephant serves as a symbol of the calm majesty possessed by one who is on the path. Specifically, it embodies the boundless powers of the Buddha which are miraculous aspiration, effort, intention, and analysis.


Both quotes from http://viewonbuddhism.org/general_symbols_buddhism.html#1a
I am looking for a reference but can't find it... maybe it's a Mahayana symbol, I thought I heard that a white elephant was a symbol of Buddha's birth.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Bnii » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:23 am

Monkey Mind, thank you! That's awesome. I love the explanation that even the deer, so easily spooked, was drawn in.

and appichato, thanks for the reminder. :smile:
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby adeh » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:59 pm

The three headed elephant is the symbol for Laos so it is probably Loatian..which is as far as I know a Theravadin country. The elephant is an animal deeply associated with the Buddha and there are constant references to elephants in the Suttas. There is even a complete chapter in the Dhammapada devoted to the elephant. Adeh.

Wandering alone is better,
There is no companionship with a fool.
Wander on alone doing no evil,
Unworried, like the elephant Mataanga in the forest.
Dhammapada 330.
Last edited by adeh on Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby adeh » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:11 pm

1099373_golden_art.jpg
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Laos temple art
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:29 pm

Greetings,

That picture above with the grey background is from the FWBO's London Buddhist Centre in Bethnal Green.

I should know, because I took the picture! :lol:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby Monkey Mind » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:41 am

Hehe, too funny! So how did I come across this picture? :rofl:
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:38 am

Greetings Monkey Mind,

Monkey Mind wrote:Hehe, too funny! So how did I come across this picture? :rofl:

Hehehe... I don't know. I probably posted it in an online discussion at some point. It was taken in October 2007. I may have specifically been talking about my trip to the London Buddhist Vihara or it may have had something to do with something else.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Can you identify this object?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:45 am

Yup thats an authentic London- in- October sky Retro...The big BuddhaRupa with western features at Bethnal Green is very impressive I think.
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