Beginner's question about reincarnation.

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible in order to double-check alignment to Theravāda orthodoxy.
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Nibbida
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Nibbida »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Riverbend,
The key thing to be wary of, is that unless you have developed at least a conceptual understanding of anatta (not-self), any views about post-mortem rebirth have, will inevitably be Wrong View because they involved some "thing" that lives on (eternalism) or some "thing" that is destroyed (annihilationism).
This is such a good point. It seems to me that anyone who isn't awakened (i.e. stream entry or above) is likely to misunderstand what post-mortem rebirth is. Despite how well one might understand it intellectually, there is always that sneaky underlying sense of self taking comfort in the idea that "I" will continue.
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Riverbend
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Riverbend »

The key thing to be wary of, is that unless you have developed at least a conceptual understanding of anatta (not-self), any views about post-mortem rebirth have, will inevitably be Wrong View because they involved some "thing" that lives on (eternalism) or some "thing" that is destroyed (annihilationism).
Thanks for your advice. What I understand about anatta I visualise as a whirlpool. The whirlpool has an identity of its own, its own character and even its own name, but it is really just a process of water. When that process ends it is no more; but the same process from the same cause can arise somewhere else. Is that close?

Interestingly, particles of energy that make physical matter are also processes more than they are things.
I think the carrot infinitely more fascinating than the geranium. The carrot has mystery. Flowers are essentially tarts. Prostitutes for the bees. There is you'll agree a certain je ne se quoi oh so very special about a firm young carrot. [Uncle Monty -- Withnail & I.]
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retrofuturist
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Riverbend,
Riverbend wrote:Is that close?
It's hard to say for sure with poetic / graphic descriptions.

Just read suttas on the topic and read what various monks and teachers within the Theravada tradition say about it and you should be fine.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Nibbida
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Nibbida »

Riverbend wrote:
The key thing to be wary of, is that unless you have developed at least a conceptual understanding of anatta (not-self), any views about post-mortem rebirth have, will inevitably be Wrong View because they involved some "thing" that lives on (eternalism) or some "thing" that is destroyed (annihilationism).
Thanks for your advice. What I understand about anatta I visualise as a whirlpool. The whirlpool has an identity of its own, its own character and even its own name, but it is really just a process of water. When that process ends it is no more; but the same process from the same cause can arise somewhere else. Is that close?

Interestingly, particles of energy that make physical matter are also processes more than they are things.

Yes, that is one of the clearer explanations of anatta that I have heard: the self is a process, an interdependent and impermanent activity, rather than a thing.
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Riverbend
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Riverbend »

It is interesting to see where there are similarities with Taoism. At least in this regard the two overlap.
I think the carrot infinitely more fascinating than the geranium. The carrot has mystery. Flowers are essentially tarts. Prostitutes for the bees. There is you'll agree a certain je ne se quoi oh so very special about a firm young carrot. [Uncle Monty -- Withnail & I.]
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Good article here, should answer your question

Whether or not there is rebirth is not the fundamental question, because once one is born here and now, there is dukkha like this and it must be quenched like this. Even if you are born again, dukkha is like this and must be quenched in the same way. Why bother talking about birth or no birth? Talk only about how dukkha arises and how dukkha is quenched. Just this is already enough. For this reason the Buddha taught anattā. Once anattā is fully realized, there is no dukkha. When there is no attā, dukkha isn't born, anymore. Therefore, he taught the quenching of dukkha, that is, he taught this matter of not-self. The teaching of anattā is essential for the ending of dukkha. Arguments and discussions about whether there is rebirth or not area waste of time. Whether "it" will be born or not, there is still this business of quenching dukkha like this. It's better to speak about this quenching of dukkha instead. This quenching of dukkha is the fact that there is no attā, is understanding that everything is anattā. (33)

We can conclude by saying that if you understand anattā correctly and truly, then you will discover for yourself that there is no rebirth and no reincarnation. The matter is finished.

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... ebirth.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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retrofuturist
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by retrofuturist »

:goodpost:
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Riverbend
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Riverbend »

Wow, thank you. I suppose the point is that rebirth isn't the point.
I think the carrot infinitely more fascinating than the geranium. The carrot has mystery. Flowers are essentially tarts. Prostitutes for the bees. There is you'll agree a certain je ne se quoi oh so very special about a firm young carrot. [Uncle Monty -- Withnail & I.]
PeterB
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by PeterB »

retrofuturist wrote::goodpost:
Oh yes indeedy... :clap:
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by PeterB »

Riverbend wrote:Wow, thank you. I suppose the point is that rebirth isn't the point.
Thats it. After days of hot sunshine and sticky nights a soft refreshing rain has fallen here in England. Everything is born anew. Even the grass smells sweet. Its all here now.
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Re: Beginner's question about reincarnation.

Post by Annapurna »

And gone tomorrow.
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