Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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EricJ
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by EricJ »

If the Buddha saw fit to visit Sri Lanka, why wouldn't he have visited other places in the world, propagating the Dhamma over the entire world?
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3
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Ben
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by Ben »

Hi Eric
EricJ wrote:If the Buddha saw fit to visit Sri Lanka, why wouldn't he have visited other places in the world, propagating the Dhamma over the entire world?
Legend has it that he also visited Myanmar.
Farther up near the summit [of Mandalay Hill], a gigantic standing image of the Buddha called the Shweyattaw (literally standing) or Byadeippay (prophesying) Buddha with his right hand pointing towards the city. Legend has it that the Buddha once visited the place and prophesied that in the year 2400 of the Buddhist Era a great city would be built at the foot of the hill where his teachings would flourish. One curiosity that belongs to the myth surrounding the ancient kingdom of Bagan is the so-called 'Kyanzittha's spear mark' near the top of the hill. He was supposed to have executed a miraculous pole vault using his spear across the Irrawaddy!
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandalay_Hill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by jcsuperstar »

went to siam quite a bit too, the northern part at least
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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EricJ
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by EricJ »

Okay, I will revise my question. Why wouldn't the Buddha have visited places which are not historically Theravadin? Like the Scandinavian peninsula or the Amazon rainforest?
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3
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retrofuturist
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings EricJ,
EricJ wrote:Okay, I will revise my question. Why wouldn't the Buddha have visited places which are not historically Theravadin? Like the Scandinavian peninsula or the Amazon rainforest?
Putthujanas often identify themselves with an abstract notion of nationality.

"I am Australian", "I am American", "I am Indian". "I am Thai" etc.

When one feels that the Buddha visited their home country, they feel a certain sense of pride (conceit), association and allegience with respect to the Buddha and as a result, take more ownership of the Buddha and his teachings.

Legends may therefore have some practical value, even if they have no historical basis. Have you ever seen the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa Simpson does an expose on Jebediah Springfield? At the last minute she decides against exposing the myths surrounding Jebediah Springfield, because she sees that people's beliefs, despite being historically false, produce good benefits here-and-now. That doesn't mean one should try to convince themselves to believe that which they consider false, but they should think twice about 'slashing and burning' that which may, in some indirect way, actually be a source of good for others. It's for this reason I make no effort whatsoever to convince anyone of the non-existence of God, for example.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by jcsuperstar »

maybe there was no reason to go
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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EricJ
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by EricJ »

jcsuperstar wrote:maybe there was no reason to go
The propagation of the Dhamma? Did the Buddha not exhort his followers to spread the Dhamma the world over? If he travelled to some places would he not have travelled to other places out of compassion for all sentient beings? Think about how many Europeans, Africans, Australians, Pacific Islanders, South Americans, and North Americans could have taken refuge over the course of thousands of years if the Buddha had visited these places. If the Buddha only visited countries which are historically Buddhist (such as Sri Lanka, Burma, and Thailand), it seems he was holding out on the rest of the world.

I think that retrofuturist's idea is much more logically sound. Is there even any sort of sutta which would suggest the Buddha visited other places, aside from those suttas which detailed the Buddha's powers?

Regards,
Eric
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by jcsuperstar »

EricJ wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:maybe there was no reason to go
The propagation of the Dhamma? Did the Buddha not exhort his followers to spread the Dhamma the world over? If he travelled to some places would he not have travelled to other places out of compassion for all sentient beings? Think about how many Europeans, Africans, Australians, Pacific Islanders, South Americans, and North Americans could have taken refuge over the course of thousands of years if the Buddha had visited these places. If the Buddha only visited countries which are historically Buddhist (such as Sri Lanka, Burma, and Thailand), it seems he was holding out on the rest of the world.

I think that retrofuturist's idea is much more logically sound. Is there even any sort of sutta which would suggest the Buddha visited other places, aside from those suttas which detailed the Buddha's powers?

Regards,
Eric
if we just look at the suttas that deal with him in India there were many who did not covert to his teachings after hearing him speak. there were those who turned against him. those who tried to humiliate him, kill him etc. this was in his own culture, how much more would it be in another? the Buddha knew when to a person would accept his teachings and when they would not. there is no reason to believe that if the Buddha went to those places that they would have accepted him or his teachings. and maybe he did? maybe the teachings died out?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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EricJ
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

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jcsuperstar wrote:if we just look at the suttas that deal with him in India there were many who did not covert to his teachings after hearing him speak. there were those who turned against him. those who tried to humiliate him, kill him etc. this was in his own culture, how much more would it be in another? the Buddha knew when to a person would accept his teachings and when they would not. there is no reason to believe that if the Buddha went to those places that they would have accepted him or his teachings. and maybe he did? maybe the teachings died out?
So, are you saying that there wouldn't have been some people who would have accepted the Buddha's teachings in non-Indian cultures? The Thai and Burmese cultures would have been fairly different from the Mahajanapada/Maghadan cultures at the time that the Buddha supposedly visited these places, before Southeast Asia was taken in to the Indian cultural sphere.

Did the Buddha hold back his teachings even for those who rebuffed his message?

If it was necessary to believe or speculate that the Buddha visited places outside of India, surely that facet of the Buddha's life would have been mentioned in the suttas. It also seems entirely too coincidental that the places with folkloric visits by the Buddha also happen to be solidly Buddhist countries.
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by jcsuperstar »

no one ever said it was necessary, these are just stories tied to certain places. folklore.

what do you mean "hold back the teachings"? if one isnt ready and so you dont teach him, you didnt hold anything back, you just didnt waste your time talking, basically, to yourself.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by Ben »

Anyway...
With all due respect to the OP and all participants in this thread, I don't think it really matters whether the Buddha went anywhere outside of India or whether he could have taught people from other lands.
The important thing to remember is that we have the teachings and the opportunity to put the teachigns into practice.
So I recommend that you all get busy with practicing Dhamma!
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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EricJ
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by EricJ »

jcsuperstar wrote:no one ever said it was necessary, these are just stories tied to certain places. folklore.
I agree, which is why I voiced my skepticism that the Buddha actually visited these places and why I agree with retrofuturist's idea concerning the reasoning behind these stories.
jcsuperstar wrote: what do you mean "hold back the teachings"? if one isnt ready and so you dont teach him, you didnt hold anything back, you just didnt waste your time talking, basically, to yourself.
The Buddha was a convincing and brilliant teacher, a teacher who knew how to skillfully appeal to those who would have seemed like "lost causes" to others. Are there any stories of the Buddha encountering and instructing a person who didn't go on to take refuge? I am genuinely curious about this, because I am not quite as familiar with the suttas as many of the members of this board.

:anjali:
Eric
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi

With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.

Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
- Snp. 1.3
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by jcsuperstar »

EricJ wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:no one ever said it was necessary, these are just stories tied to certain places. folklore.
I agree, which is why I voiced my skepticism that the Buddha actually visited these places and why I agree with retrofuturist's idea concerning the reasoning behind these stories.
jcsuperstar wrote: what do you mean "hold back the teachings"? if one isnt ready and so you dont teach him, you didnt hold anything back, you just didnt waste your time talking, basically, to yourself.
The Buddha was a convincing and brilliant teacher, a teacher who knew how to skillfully appeal to those who would have seemed like "lost causes" to others. Are there any stories of the Buddha encountering and instructing a person who didn't go on to take refuge? I am genuinely curious about this, because I am not quite as familiar with the suttas as many of the members of this board.

:anjali:
Eric
yes, in fact the 1st person he met after he decided to teach and monks leaving the sangha too, his attendant prior to Ananda left him, also there were monks who left with Devadata too.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Ben,
Ben wrote:With all due respect to the OP and all participants in this thread, I don't think it really matters whether the Buddha went anywhere outside of India or whether he could have taught people from other lands.
The important thing to remember is that we have the teachings and the opportunity to put the teachigns into practice.
So I recommend that you all get busy with practicing Dhamma!
A good recommendation indeed... though if there were some "evidence" that these traditional claims are false, then this may have a knock-on effect on the credibility of other writings from the same source.

If these same sources also contributed to the Dhamma which has also been handed down over time, certain aspects of the Dhamma which you rightly encourage us to practice may also have question marks placed over their authenticity as a result.

Sure... they're a couple of big ifs, but I don't think they can be ignored, particularly in a sub-forum dedicated to "textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts."

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Ben
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Re: Did the Buddha go to Sri Lanka?

Post by Ben »

Hi Retro

I'm not particularly worried about whether there is evidence that the Buddha went to Sri Lanka.
He could have gone or it could be sheer hagiography, but its essentially immaterial unless its a source of inspiration to practice.

To paraphrase the old axiom: the proof of the efficacy of the Dhamma is in its practice.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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