How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

[Annapurna]

...I understand the gist of your concerns, but isn't there a point at which complaining about others and their speech becomes a little gratuitous, salacious, unsavoury and unwholesome in itself?...

Well, I think it's time for another year-long vacation from this place (hold your applause, please). I don't think I"ve ever seen one Buddhist insinuate that the behavior of another Buddhist is gratuitous, salacious, unsavory and unwholesome. Phrasing it as a question may soften the charge a bit, but usually attempts to just shift the burden of proof to the accused, not the accuser.

Dear Hoo. ty. (and also to Kim, who also said something against it.)

I hadn't looked up "gratuitous, salacious, unsavory" but now I did. (I'm not a Native speaker)

In all things that may be challenging, I keep this in mind:

"Never put on a shoe that doesn't fit."(One of the first teachings of my teacher)

"If someone points, keep in mind that he may be pointing back at himself."

Dhammapada:

124
If there's no wound on the hand, that hand can hold poison. Poison won't penetrate where there's no wound. There's no evil for those who don't do it.

No worries, dear, and hang out, please.

Anna

[Sanghamitta]

As I am not a 14 year old I am only guess what "dissing" means from context. Its not an expression used in standard English.
I am absolutely not going to become embroiled in a meta- discussion about meta- discussions.

I think that we all should take responsibility for our own posts, and leave the style and manner of other peoples out of the discussion. Lets concentrate on the content.

[Annapurna]

Neither am I 14, lol. It's quite common in older ones as well.

To diss is simply short for 'dismiss',- or disrespect- and can even be found in on-line dictionaries.

Again, this topic here is not about forum rules, therefore not meta, it's about the Dhamma, which is not meta.

ok?

[Sanghamitta]

No I did not misunderstand. By any definition this is a meta- discussion. In other words a discussion about discussion.
I repeat lets all take responsibility for our own posts.
Let us address the CONTENT of other peoples posts. The points they are making. What they are communicating. lets not get bogged down with telling others HOW they should post. Lets trust the moderators to address any inappropriate posts.
Lets not turn this valuable resource into a social networking site , lets use it to deepen our knowledge of Buddhadhamma. And not attempt to influence the way other people communicate or learn.
if something is not to our taste , then read something else, not set ourselves up as class prefects.

BTW the reason I referred to "14 year olds" is because " dissing" is teenage argot.
Now can we all discuss Buddhadhamma ?

[Annapurna]

Again, this topic here is not about forum rules, therefore not meta, it's about the Dhamma, which is not meta.

ok?

The Buddha talked about right speech and skillful conversation:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You DO misunderstand, if you call sutthas meta discussion.

[Annapurna]

Sanghamitta, now what is it?

Here you say you had to guess what it means:

As I am not a 14 year old I am only guess what "dissing" means from context.

But then you say you know what it is:

the reason I referred to "14 year olds" is because " dissing" is teenage argot.

I'm sorry, but those 2 statements seem to contradict each other, you either know, or you don't!

Let us address the CONTENT of other peoples posts. The points they are making. What they are communicating. lets not get bogged down with telling others HOW they should post. Lets trust the moderators to address any inappropriate posts.
Lets not turn this valuable resource into a social networking site , lets use it to deepen our knowledge of Buddhadhamma. And not attempt to influence the way other people communicate or learn.

Nice appeal, but what for? Is studying sutthas not for ourselves, and don't we grow with each other?

Lets trust the moderators to address any inappropriate posts.

Yes, but, this topic is NOT about mods, but about learning more about right speech (for)ourselves, and not about delegating responsibility to mods!

It's neither about criticising them, nor about flattering them!

if something is not to our taste , then read something else, not set ourselves up as class prefects.

pointing.jpg (7.69 KiB) Viewed 2107 times

Dear Sanghamitta, absolutely. Do feel free not to post in this one anymore, if it's not to your taste.

Thank you.

[Ngawang Drolma.]

I treat beginners exactly the same way I treat everyone. I find it easiest to give people courtesy and respect.
That's not intended as a lecture, I'm just sharing

Best,
Laura

[ground]

There are two aspects in this question

How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

1. reply to others
2. reply to beginners

as to 1. reply to others
I think the guideline is provided by right speech and Abhaya Sutta.
As to the Abhaya Sutta the Tathagata demontrates what should be said and what should not be said and when should be said what should be said:
a) "beneficial" prevails "true" in the sense that a true but unbeneficial fact is never said even if "endearing & agreeable"
b) What is not "true" is never said even if the lie would be "beneficial"
c) what is true and beneficial always has its time to be said and the Buddha, because of being a buddha and because of having "sympathy for living beings" "has a sense of the proper time for saying ..."
Challenging for us are the questions "what is beneficial in a special case?" and "what is the right time?" and "what is true?"
I think the only thing we can do is to rely on transmitted scripture (as to truth and benefit) and to respond if our minds are not obscured by afflictions (as to right time).

as to 2. reply to beginners
Here there is the presumption that we ourselves do have something a so called "beginner" has not and this presumption needs to be analysed as to truth and wholesome or unwholesome effects.

Kind regards

[Annapurna]

I treat beginners exactly the same way I treat everyone. I find it easiest to give people courtesy and respect.
That's not intended as a lecture, I'm just sharing

Best,
Laura

Thank you, Laura.

[tiltbillings]

Again, this topic here is not about forum rules, therefore not meta, it's about the Dhamma, which is not meta.

What motivated this discussion? It was kicked off by a perceived rudeness towards a beginner in another thread. I think the point of being polite and all has been driven home (a couple of times).

[Annapurna]

There are two aspects in this question

How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

1. reply to others
2. reply to beginners

as to 1. reply to others
I think the guideline is provided by right speech and Abhaya Sutta.
As to the Abhaya Sutta the Tathagata demontrates what should be said and what should not be said and when should be said what should be said:
a) "beneficial" prevails "true" in the sense that a true but unbeneficial fact is never said even if "endearing & agreeable"
b) What is not "true" is never said even if the lie would be "beneficial"
c) what is true and beneficial always has its time to be said and the Buddha, because of being a buddha and because of having "sympathy for living beings" "has a sense of the proper time for saying ..."
Challenging for us are the questions "what is beneficial in a special case?" and "what is the right time?" and "what is true?"
I think the only thing we can do is to rely on transmitted scripture (as to truth and benefit) and to respond if our minds are not obscured by afflictions (as to right time).

as to 2. reply to beginners
Here there is the presumption that we ourselves do have something a so called "beginner" has not and this presumption needs to be analysed as to truth and wholesome or unwholesome effects.

Kind regards

Thanks, TMingyur, for the suttha. Wasn't aware of it, but am happy you shared it.

This is how I hoped the topic would be.

Sharing the Dhamma.

[tiltbillings]

This thread has made its point, served its purpose, and is now repeating itself, going in circles. Time to end.