Thanks IanAnd. Yes, I do appreciate the take given by Bhk. Nanananda.
However, I somehow think that the Buddha was pointing to something extremely subtle.
When ignorance disappear, sankhara disappear; when sankhara disappear, vinnana disappear as so on. In other words, the whole PS chain disappear. If the whole PS chain disappear, what have we got left? That is what I think the Buddha is pointing to.
However, I don't think the Buddha is pointing to some basic thing from which all things arise. That would be Advaita Vedanta in philosophy. Having studied with Hindu masters of his time, certainly the Buddha could not be saying he agreed with that. So, what I am left with is a question mark.
Luminious mind
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Re: Luminious mind
At what point are you talking about? The moment of awakening, or the day-to-day liofe of an awakened one? There is no thing left over at either point that is somehow what truly is. I think it needs to be kept in mind that it is a process of knowing (not ontology) that is being gotten at here.Sherab wrote:However, I somehow think that the Buddha was pointing to something extremely subtle.
When ignorance disappear, sankhara disappear; when sankhara disappear, vinnana disappear as so on. In other words, the whole PS chain disappear. If the whole PS chain disappear, what have we got left? That is what I think the Buddha is pointing to.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Luminious mind
Nothing wrong with question marks. They should motivate us to practice more.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: Luminious mind
What is left is the chain without the conditioning greed, hatred, and delusion. After all: when I [the Buddha] come to the highway, if I do not see anyone in front or behind, at that time I find it pleasant, at least for the purpose of urinating and excreting. Yasasutta AN.Sherab wrote: However, I somehow think that the Buddha was pointing to something extremely subtle.
When ignorance disappear, sankhara disappear; when sankhara disappear, vinnana disappear as so on. In other words, the whole PS chain disappear. If the whole PS chain disappear, what have we got left?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Luminious mind
AgreedSanghamitta wrote:Nothing wrong with question marks. They should motivate us to practice more.
Re: Luminious mind
My problem is what drives the unconditioned chain? Unconditioned chain seems to be an oxymoron to me.tiltbillings wrote:What is left is the chain without the conditioning greed, hatred, and delusion. After all: when I [the Buddha] come to the highway, if I do not see anyone in front or behind, at that time I find it pleasant, at least for the purpose of urinating and excreting. Yasasutta AN.Sherab wrote: However, I somehow think that the Buddha was pointing to something extremely subtle.
When ignorance disappear, sankhara disappear; when sankhara disappear, vinnana disappear as so on. In other words, the whole PS chain disappear. If the whole PS chain disappear, what have we got left?
Re: Luminious mind
Hello Tilt,tiltbillings wrote:What is left is the chain without the conditioning greed, hatred, and delusion. After all: when I [the Buddha] come to the highway, if I do not see anyone in front or behind, at that time I find it pleasant, at least for the purpose of urinating and excreting. Yasasutta AN.Sherab wrote: However, I somehow think that the Buddha was pointing to something extremely subtle.
When ignorance disappear, sankhara disappear; when sankhara disappear, vinnana disappear as so on. In other words, the whole PS chain disappear. If the whole PS chain disappear, what have we got left?
Could you explain in more detail what you mean, for those of us who have missed the point?
Here is the full sutta from which you took the quote:
AN 8.86 Yasa Sutta: Honor
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Luminious mind
The conditioning that matters, that chain of conditioning which keeps us bound to samsara has stopped, but the conditions of life still continue. We could go the Mahayana route and essentially deify the Buddha, stating his mind utterly other than ours, which the Mahayana takes to docetic heights. That is not necessarily the picture we get in the suttas. There is no subtle truly true reality. For the Buddha, or any awakened individual, it is the same stuff we all deal with. For the Buddha and the arahants, however, that stuff is simply no longer conditioned by greed, hatred, and delusion.cooran wrote:
Hello Tilt,
Could you explain in more detail what you mean, for those of us who have missed the point?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Luminious mind
So there is a "pure" realm where undefiled conditioning drives its existence and where "pure" beings abide and there is the "impure" realm driven by defiled conditionings where we the "impure" beings abide?tiltbillings wrote:The conditioning that matters, that chain of conditioning which keeps us bound to samsara has stopped, but the conditions of life still continue. We could go the Mahayana route and essentially deify the Buddha, stating his mind utterly other than ours, which the Mahayana takes to docetic heights. That is not necessarily the picture we get in the suttas. There is no subtle truly true reality. For the Buddha, or any awakened individual, it is the same stuff we all deal with. For the Buddha and the arahants, however, that stuff is simply no longer conditioned by greed, hatred, and delusion.cooran wrote:
Hello Tilt,
Could you explain in more detail what you mean, for those of us who have missed the point?
- tiltbillings
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Re: Luminious mind
Not taught in the Pali suttas.Sherab wrote:
So there is a "pure" realm where undefiled conditioning drives its existence and where "pure" beings abide and there is the "impure" realm driven by defiled conditionings where we the "impure" beings abide?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Luminious mind
I know, but that seems to me to be the logical conclusion from your previous post.tiltbillings wrote:Not taught in the Pali suttas.Sherab wrote:
So there is a "pure" realm where undefiled conditioning drives its existence and where "pure" beings abide and there is the "impure" realm driven by defiled conditionings where we the "impure" beings abide?
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Re: Luminious mind
Sherab wrote:I know, but that seems to me to be the logical conclusion from your previous post.tiltbillings wrote:Not taught in the Pali suttas.Sherab wrote:
So there is a "pure" realm where undefiled conditioning drives its existence and where "pure" beings abide and there is the "impure" realm driven by defiled conditionings where we the "impure" beings abide?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Luminious mind
Interesting, I would say just the opposite, at least. I kind of wonder if you are making an unwarranted jump somewhere along the line. Because there is no separate realms of the unconditioned as opposed to the conditioned, that we can free ourselves from the conditioning of greed, hatred, and delusion.Sherab wrote:I know, but that seems to me to be the logical conclusion from your previous post.tiltbillings wrote:Not taught in the Pali suttas.Sherab wrote:
So there is a "pure" realm where undefiled conditioning drives its existence and where "pure" beings abide and there is the "impure" realm driven by defiled conditionings where we the "impure" beings abide?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Luminious mind
From Tiltbillings previous post:jcsuperstar wrote:Sherab wrote:
I know, but that seems to me to be the logical conclusion from your previous post.
"The conditioning that matters, that chain of conditioning which keeps us bound to samsara has stopped, but the conditions of life still continue."
What else could be concluded from the above?
Re: Luminious mind
Where are you getting this "realm" business from?
For a Buddha, they deal with the same stuff everyone else does, but they are free from clinging, and so free from craving and aversion, no longer influenced by them. An awakened person interacts with the same world, but without pushing or pulling, or stress. That's it.
For a Buddha, they deal with the same stuff everyone else does, but they are free from clinging, and so free from craving and aversion, no longer influenced by them. An awakened person interacts with the same world, but without pushing or pulling, or stress. That's it.