Viewing images of Corpses online

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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octathlon
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by octathlon »

jcsuperstar wrote:seems like there is some taking the body as the self going on in a lot of the aversion to these practices. i wouldn't want my body used like that etc. as if there is some you or him or she that is that lifeless body being looked at. why is there not the same aversion to being seen by others walking down the street? they are seeing and using your body in anyway they choose and you have no control over it. and when dealing with a dead body you are no longer dealing with a person, in any way, they feel no pain , no embarrassment.

In my case that was over 30 years ago that I thought that (not wanting *my* body used like that). Nowadays I wouldn't mind if they do. I would especially like it if they could learn something that would help cure a disease, but even just helping train doctors to learn anatomy is also OK. :smile:
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by jcsuperstar »

I'm not saying i don't have similar issues, we all do until we're at least a sotapanna i think, but i think it helps to see these things for what they are instead of lashing out at others
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Monkey Mind
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by Monkey Mind »

I saw this exhibit when it was in town: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Worlds
Although "sanitary", i.e. nothing was oozing or rotting, it was effective for the purposes of charnel ground contemplation.

As a result of my visit to the exhibit, I have chosen to donate my corpse to be a cadaver for medical studies upon death.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710
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Annapurna
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by Annapurna »

jcsuperstar wrote:seems like there is some taking the body as the self going on in a lot of the aversion to these practices. i wouldn't want my body used like that etc. as if there is some you or him or she that is that lifeless body being looked at. why is there not the same aversion to being seen by others walking down the street? they are seeing and using your body in anyway they choose and you have no control over it. and when dealing with a dead body you are no longer dealing with a person, in any way, they feel no pain , no embarrassment.
Just in case you are referring to me when you talk about aversion, and just to make it 100 % clear:

I am far from feeling aversion against corpses, but all against an insensitive or illegal use of graphic images, hurting the feelings of loved ones, if they happen to come across an image when they least expect it. Imagine their pain!

As a Buddhist, I have an obligation to avoid harm to others.

A photo can be the photo of a stranger to us, but a photo of a loved one to others, and cause hurt. Not all are Buddhists and can shrug it off as annica and what not.

Let's perhaps also assume noble intentions, such as respect and compassion, before we assume defilements in others, such as aversion or harmful intentions- is that a good idea?

I'm also for anatomy studies, if that 's what one wishes to do. Go for it, by all means.

I happen to not need that, I've been confronted with death and illness a lot, and am dealing with it because of my job.

But I understand very well that it is a helpful method. Been there, done that, and basically still do it.

For me it is more a compassion practice, but I'm sure it works against lust too.

Bodom, , I don't know if you read my reply, where I recommended hard work to reduce lusting.

Another method is fasting.

A friend of mine uses fasting twice a week to reduce the sex drive.

He won't eat and drink from morning til evening. Says it works.

Being hungry and thirsty all day and suffering due to that doesn't allow sexual thoughts to arise as much as usually.

I also think that a general progress in practice will have desires falling away...

Wishing you good progress. :anjali:
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by jcsuperstar »

interesting i've fasted many times, sometimes for long periods and it never did anything to diminish my sex drive.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by jcsuperstar »

Annapurna wrote:
I am far from feeling aversion against corpses, but all against an insensitive or illegal use of graphic images, hurting the feelings of loved ones, if they happen to come across an image when they least expect it. Imagine their pain!

:
or it could be an awakening experience? i don't claim to know the minds of others though.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by Sanghamitta »

jcsuperstar wrote:
Annapurna wrote:
I am far from feeling aversion against corpses, but all against an insensitive or illegal use of graphic images, hurting the feelings of loved ones, if they happen to come across an image when they least expect it. Imagine their pain!

:
or it could be an awakening experience? i don't claim to know the minds of others though.
Quite so, just as it was for the Buddha to be.
Our bodies are not" us "and they are not "ours."
The bodies of loved ones are not them and are not theirs or ours.
There are many stories of the particularly powerful effect that cemetery contemplation can have particularly when the subject is known, And of those who turn to Dhamma because of the death of loved ones, which brings them face to face with anicca. Identification with the body whether ours or others is a primary cause of being stuck in the conditioned realm. That is precisely why the Buddha prescribed cemetery contemplations as a way of weakening the identification with rupa. our own form or anyone else's.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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cooran
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

10 Asubhas (Objects of Impurity):

The ten objects of impurity are various sorts of corpses. Meditating on corpses is useful is reducing lust. This practice should only be followed under the guidance of a teacher.
Below is a list of the asubhas and who will find them useful.

Swollen Corpse: Those who lust after beauty of form.

Discolored Corpse: Those who lust after beauty of the skin and complexion.

Festering Corpse: Those who lust after a sweet-smelling body, using perfumes.

Fissured Corpse: Those who lust after the firmness and solidity of the body.

Mangled Corpse: Those who lust after fulness of the flesh, such as the breasts.

Dismembered Corpse: Those who lust after graceful movements of the body.

Cut & Dismembered Corpse: Those who lust after perfection of the joints of the body.

Blood-stained Corpse: Those who lust after beauty produced by adornments.

Worm-infested Corpse: Those who are attached to the idea that the body is "me" or "mine."

Skeleton: Those who lust after perfection of the teeth and nails.


with metta and karuna,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by Sanghamitta »

The point about instruction is vital I think Cooran. I don't think this kind of practice should happen in any context other than a balanced approach to practises under the supervision of an experienced meditation teacher.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Annapurna
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by Annapurna »

jcsuperstar wrote:interesting i've fasted many times, sometimes for long periods and it never did anything to diminish my sex drive.
That doesn't mean it's not true for others.
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by jcsuperstar »

Annapurna wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:interesting i've fasted many times, sometimes for long periods and it never did anything to diminish my sex drive.
That doesn't mean it's not true for others.
oh thanks i guess i should go back and edit the part of my post where i said it did
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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retrofuturist
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Annapurna wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:interesting i've fasted many times, sometimes for long periods and it never did anything to diminish my sex drive.
That doesn't mean it's not true for others.
That doesn't mean it's Theravada meditation, either.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by Sanghamitta »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Annapurna wrote:
jcsuperstar wrote:interesting i've fasted many times, sometimes for long periods and it never did anything to diminish my sex drive.
That doesn't mean it's not true for others.
That doesn't mean it's Theravada meditation, either.

Metta,
Retro. :)
While there is no doubt that cemetery/ corpse contemplation is. And has been since the time of the Buddha.
The Tibetans take it much further, They have are a whole series of practices. Some of which involve sitting on a corpse and using it as a meditation cushion.
In the Theravada contemplation of corpses has always been a supervised but common practice.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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cooran
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by cooran »

Sanghamitta said: While there is no doubt that cemetery/ corpse contemplation is. And has been since the time of the Buddha.
"Furthermore, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' Just as if a sack with openings at both ends were full of various kinds of grain — wheat, rice, mung beans, kidney beans, sesame seeds, husked rice — and a man with good eyesight, pouring it out, were to reflect, 'This is wheat. This is rice. These are mung beans. These are kidney beans. These are sesame seeds. This is husked rice'; in the same way, the monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.' And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

"Furthermore, the monk contemplates this very body — however it stands, however it is disposed — in terms of properties: 'In this body there is the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, & the wind property.' Just as a skilled butcher or his apprentice, having killed a cow, would sit at a crossroads cutting it up into pieces, the monk contemplates this very body — however it stands, however it is disposed — in terms of properties: 'In this body there is the earth property, the liquid property, the fire property, & the wind property.' And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.
"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...

"Or again, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground, picked at by crows, vultures, & hawks, by dogs, hyenas, & various other creatures... a skeleton smeared with flesh & blood, connected with tendons... a fleshless skeleton smeared with blood, connected with tendons... a skeleton without flesh or blood, connected with tendons... bones detached from their tendons, scattered in all directions — here a hand bone, there a foot bone, here a shin bone, there a thigh bone, here a hip bone, there a back bone, here a rib, there a breast bone, here a shoulder bone, there a neck bone, here a jaw bone, there a tooth, here a skull... the bones whitened, somewhat like the color of shells... piled up, more than a year old... decomposed into a powder: He applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate.'

"And as he remains thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, any memories & resolves related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, grows unified & centered. This is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Viewing images of Corpses online

Post by rowyourboat »

I think there is an important distinction here:

'Foulness of the body' (asubha) meditations as well the elements of the body meditation (dhathumanasikara) mainly gets rid of craving to the body- one of our strongest cravings- and something we need special dedicated methods to get rid of.

The '9 stages of decomposition' meditation in a satipatthana (navaseevatika) lead to calm, detached, equanamous mind states from life and the body.

Then Death meditations (maranussati) should lead to urgency of practice.

I find that developing samadhi gives rise to less lustlful thoughts. Sometimes even strong metta. I also find that looking at the whole issue from a biological. evolutionary viewpoint makes a lot of sense. Sex (and behaviours around it) are all geared to women procuring the best materially and genetically well off mates, while men look for the most fertile women. Attraction seem geared to finding the most fertile woman (studies have apparently proved this) and the most resourceful, genetically good man. This allows me to step back from what I am attracted to because that is just my body trying to make babies....which I dont want.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
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