Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
I was wondering if the Abhidhamma spoke about how realms are constructed? If it's a actual plane of existence or mental construct... etc.. ?
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Howdy Wind!Wind wrote:I was wondering if the Abhidhamma spoke about how realms are constructed? If it's a actual plane of existence or mental construct... etc.. ?
Read here on page 189.
Metta
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Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Greetings,
Is the correlation of different jhanas with differental realms of experience commented upon in the Abhidhamma (Pitaka or commentary)?
Metta,
Retro.
Is the correlation of different jhanas with differental realms of experience commented upon in the Abhidhamma (Pitaka or commentary)?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Howdy Retro!
Metta
All 5 of them are listed in The CMA at the above link! Page 186 has a table and there is text elsewhere.retrofuturist wrote:Is the correlation of different jhanas with differental realms of experience commented upon in the Abhidhamma (Pitaka or commentary)?
Metta
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Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Thanks Anicca,
I started before at page 189 and read forwards from there.
Metta,
Retro.
I started before at page 189 and read forwards from there.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Actually, from page 185.
Then on p. 188:
Ben
Then on p. 188:
kind regardsGuide to 2
The compendium of process-freed consciousness opens with a rurvey of the topography of the phenomenal world, charting the planes of existence and the various realms within each plane. (See Table 5.1). The author undertakes this survey before examining the types of process-freed consciousness because the external universe, according to the Abhidhamma, is an outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind, registering in concrete manifest form the subtle gradations in states of consciousness...
...the outer world is always a world apprehended by consciousness, and the type of consciousness determines the nature of the world that appears. Consciousness and the world are mutually dependent and inextriably connected to such an extent that the hierarchical structure of the realms of existence exactly reproduces and corresponds to the hierarchical structure of consciousness.
Because of this correspondence, each of the two, the objective hierarchy of existence and the inner gradation of consciousness, provides the key to understanding the other. The reason why a living being is reborn into a particular realm is because he has generated, in a previous life, the kamma or volitional force of consciousness that leads to the rebirth into that realm, and thus the final analysis all the realms of activity of existence are formed, fashioned, and sustained by the mental activity of living beings. At the same time these realms provide the stage for consciousness to continue its evolution in a new personality and under a fresh set of circumstances
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27839
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
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Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Greetings,
Really?
What does that mean exactly?
The way I'm reading it, it sounds a bit back-to-front. How does the external universe be an "outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind" when there's a 1 to many relationship between "the external universe" and the "internal cosmos of mind"? Do we each have our own private "external universe"? How do you exist in mine, and vice versa?
Metta,
Retro.
Does it?The author undertakes this survey before examining the types of process-freed consciousness because the external universe, according to the Abhidhamma, is an outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind
Really?
What does that mean exactly?
The way I'm reading it, it sounds a bit back-to-front. How does the external universe be an "outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind" when there's a 1 to many relationship between "the external universe" and the "internal cosmos of mind"? Do we each have our own private "external universe"? How do you exist in mine, and vice versa?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Ben wrote:Actually, from page 185.
Then on p. 188:
kind regardsGuide to 2
The compendium of process-freed consciousness opens with a rurvey of the topography of the phenomenal world, charting the planes of existence and the various realms within each plane. (See Table 5.1). The author undertakes this survey before examining the types of process-freed consciousness because the external universe, according to the Abhidhamma, is an outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind, registering in concrete manifest form the subtle gradations in states of consciousness...
...the outer world is always a world apprehended by consciousness, and the type of consciousness determines the nature of the world that appears. Consciousness and the world are mutually dependent and inextriably connected to such an extent that the hierarchical structure of the realms of existence exactly reproduces and corresponds to the hierarchical structure of consciousness.
Because of this correspondence, each of the two, the objective hierarchy of existence and the inner gradation of consciousness, provides the key to understanding the other. The reason why a living being is reborn into a particular realm is because he has generated, in a previous life, the kamma or volitional force of consciousness that leads to the rebirth into that realm, and thus the final analysis all the realms of activity of existence are formed, fashioned, and sustained by the mental activity of living beings. At the same time these realms provide the stage for consciousness to continue its evolution in a new personality and under a fresh set of circumstances
Ben
Wow. That's interesting. Sounds kinda like Quantum reality in action.
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Ah well...
I wouldn't say that!
Theres a couple of threads, Wind, regarding the inappropriateness of comparing this or that aspect of the Dhamma to quantum mechanics.
A number of our members are mathematicians and physicists and they've put in some great contributions on the subject.
kind regards
Ben
I wouldn't say that!
Theres a couple of threads, Wind, regarding the inappropriateness of comparing this or that aspect of the Dhamma to quantum mechanics.
A number of our members are mathematicians and physicists and they've put in some great contributions on the subject.
kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Here retro check out Quantum Reality. It is quite similar.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Does it?The author undertakes this survey before examining the types of process-freed consciousness because the external universe, according to the Abhidhamma, is an outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind
Really?
What does that mean exactly?
The way I'm reading it, it sounds a bit back-to-front. How does the external universe be an "outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind" when there's a 1 to many relationship between "the external universe" and the "internal cosmos of mind"? Do we each have our own private "external universe"? How do you exist in mine, and vice versa?
Metta,
Retro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qL1OKrs-q4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also, there is a theory call Biocentrism which also theories that the universe does not create consciousness but it's the opposite, consciousness create the the universe.
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
At this stage it might be prematurely to compare to quantum mechanics, but it's always good to keep an open mind to see what new discoveries comes about as this field is very new and still developing. Quantum Reality is goes on a bit further philosophically. It is interesting to see renowned Physicist in the video discussing reality that has some similarities to Buddhism. Of course these things should be taken with a grain of salts as it's merely theory. Still interesting nonetheless.Ben wrote:Ah well...
I wouldn't say that!
Theres a couple of threads, Wind, regarding the inappropriateness of comparing this or that aspect of the Dhamma to quantum mechanics.
A number of our members are mathematicians and physicists and they've put in some great contributions on the subject.
kind regards
Ben
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Howdy Retro!
Let's say you are an Arahant and i am a mundane worldling. We are standing side-by-side looking out at the universe. You experience your reality - nibbana and i experience mine - delusion. Same external - different internal. One (universe) to many (individuals).
Metta
Mind over matter.retrofuturist wrote:What does that mean exactly?
Let's say you are an Arahant and i am a mundane worldling. We are standing side-by-side looking out at the universe. You experience your reality - nibbana and i experience mine - delusion. Same external - different internal. One (universe) to many (individuals).
Bad kamma .retrofuturist wrote:How do you exist in mine, and vice versa?
Metta
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Hi Retro,
I for one do not have a problem co-existing in a realm with other beings who also share the same quality of consciousness.
Though they may not feel so accomodating about me being in their universe!
Kind regards
Ben
I think they are interesting questions which should be put to the author of those statements, Bhikkhu Bodhi.retrofuturist wrote:How does the external universe be an "outer reflection of the internal cosmos of mind" when there's a 1 to many relationship between "the external universe" and the "internal cosmos of mind"? Do we each have our own private "external universe"? How do you exist in mine, and vice versa?
I for one do not have a problem co-existing in a realm with other beings who also share the same quality of consciousness.
Though they may not feel so accomodating about me being in their universe!
Kind regards
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27839
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Greetings Anicca,
That says nothing of this "external universe" out there, of which Bhikkhu Bodhi speaks.
Frankly, I'm really surprised by this. I thought it was only the Tibetans (and possibly Hindus) who thought the objective "external universe" was created by the mind. I'm wondering whether what Bhikkhu Bodhi says has official old school commentarial support.
Metta,
Retro.
Yes, but that's two different "internal universes" (a.k.a. "loka", or perhaps on might say "lokuttara" re: the arahant)... and to me that makes sense.Anicca wrote:Let's say you are an Arahant and i am a mundane worldling. We are standing side-by-side looking out at the universe. You experience your reality - nibbana and i experience mine - delusion. Same external - different internal. One (universe) to many (individuals).
That says nothing of this "external universe" out there, of which Bhikkhu Bodhi speaks.
Frankly, I'm really surprised by this. I thought it was only the Tibetans (and possibly Hindus) who thought the objective "external universe" was created by the mind. I'm wondering whether what Bhikkhu Bodhi says has official old school commentarial support.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
- retrofuturist
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- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
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Re: Does the Abidhamma speak about the different realms?
Greetings Ben, Anicca, all,
Metta,
Retro.
Well you do share this "external universe" at least with creatures from other "realms", such as that frightful looking creature currently acting as your avatar!Ben wrote:I think they are interesting questions which should be put to the author of those statements, Bhikkhu Bodhi.
I for one do not have a problem co-existing in a realm with other beings who also share the same quality of consciousness.
Ben wrote:Though they may not feel so accomodating about me being in their universe!
Anicca wrote:Bad kamma .retrofuturist wrote:How do you exist in mine, and vice versa?
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."