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Goenka technique - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Goenka technique

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
ciprian
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ciprian » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:36 pm

I have a question about this technique. I read Wiliam Hard's book, The Art of Living and I understand that by not reacting to painful sensation you burn sankaras. This looks to me more like a jain thing.... Is there any sutta that can explain it? I found Devadaha sutta (MN 101) stating exactly different things.
..or maybe I got it wrong.
If this topic was discussed somewhere else please kindly direct me. Last year I attended a course in a center that was not recognized by Mr. Goenka and I heard a lot of things that where not in line with Buddha's teachings so since then I become very circumspect about it.. On the other side I see a lot of people satisfied whit this method that it makes me wonder if didn't got it wrong. Please help me out clear my doubts!
Thank you

Sanghamitta
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:57 pm

What did you understand " burn sankaras " to mean Ciprian ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

ciprian
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ciprian » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:25 pm

from my understanding of the book, the author suggested that old sankaras - that is defined as conditioning resulted from past reactions to stimuli - can manifest trough certain burnings or pains or other sensations in the body and by not reacting to those sensations you don't create new sankaras and the old one are eradicated. This looks to me like the idea that old kamma can be burned out through asceticism. from what i read so far regarding buddhist practice, the liberation comes from understanding the real nature of things, not from burning out anything. Is that any sutta that states that it works the other way?

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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:08 pm

Hi Ciprian

I think you are either misunderstanding SN Goenka or misunderstanding Jainism.
They are not the same.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

ciprian
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ciprian » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:14 pm

I am not saying that what Mr. Goenka teaches is jainism. I said that is the way it looks to me. There is a very strong possibility that I misunderstand Mr. Goenka and an even stronger one that I misunderstand Jainism.
The reason I am writing this is because I want to understand better. So please assist me if possible :anjali:

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altar
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby altar » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:30 pm

Ciprian I believe one of the differences is that Jains believe that old karma manifests in the form of present pain. Thereby forcing pain to arise, or enduring all pain that arises, one is experiencing and burning off old kamma.
However, according to Mr. Goenka, I believe there are a few differences. First is that watching sensations is not only a method of extinguishing or letting loose old sankharas, but is also a method of watching reality more closely.
But anyway, as far as burning off old sankharas is concerned: It is, in the case of Mr. Goenka's view, not that one literally must endure pain to let go of old sankharas. It is simply that one must watch whatever arises, thereby enabling mindful awareness to carry out the unbinding process. A lot of what arises will be painful, especially with that stuff that is in one's psyche. Also physical sensations that are painful will arise, and these will sometimes be connected w/ what is in the mind. Therefore by watching the painful sensations one can tap into the mind and thus mindfully bring about the unbinding process. Or, it may be that physical sensations are simply there as a result of physical pressure and feeling, and this can be a ground for investigating aversion to pain, developing endurance or patience, other useful and skilfull strategies, or simply something one has to put up with if they are going to sit long enough to watch other sensations or the mind.
Keep in mind that this is my two cents and I am not an expert on Mr. Goenka's views or the Jainist views.

ciprian
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ciprian » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:26 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:50 pm


ciprian
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby ciprian » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:24 am

thanks! I was sure that this topic must have been discussed somewhere :anjali:

vitellius
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby vitellius » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:10 pm


Parth
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Parth » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:08 am


Jhana4
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Jhana4 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:22 pm

Last edited by Jhana4 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

rowyourboat
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby rowyourboat » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:55 pm

I think aspects of the mind are reflected in the body:

"There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal.

"Just as if a skilled bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within and without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, the monk permeates, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born of withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... jhana.html

However my opinion is that mental problems are best resolved at its root (by being aware of the mind itself)

"And how does a monk remain focused on the mind in & of itself? There is the case where a monk, when the mind has passion, discerns that the mind has passion. When the mind is without passion, he discerns that the mind is without passion. When the mind has aversion, he discerns that the mind has aversion. When the mind is without aversion, he discerns that the mind is without aversion. When the mind has delusion, he discerns that the mind has delusion. When the mind is without delusion, he discerns that the mind is without delusion.

"When the mind is restricted, he discerns that the mind is restricted. When the mind is scattered, he discerns that the mind is scattered. When the mind is enlarged, he discerns that the mind is enlarged. When the mind is not enlarged, he discerns that the mind is not enlarged. When the mind is surpassed, he discerns that the mind is surpassed. When the mind is unsurpassed, he discerns that the mind is unsurpassed. When the mind is concentrated, he discerns that the mind is concentrated. When the mind is not concentrated, he discerns that the mind is not concentrated. When the mind is released, he discerns that the mind is released. When the mind is not released, he discerns that the mind is not released.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Parth
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Parth » Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:35 pm

Matheesha,

Whats the point ?

Regards

Parth

danieLion
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby danieLion » Thu May 26, 2011 12:28 am

probably a dumb question. i thought vipassana was form Theravada but this topic makes me think that's wrong (i am looking at places around Porltand OR and there is a Goenka center an hour and half from here)

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Ben
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby Ben » Thu May 26, 2011 12:46 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

danieLion
Posts: 1947
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby danieLion » Thu May 26, 2011 12:55 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 26, 2011 1:11 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

danieLion
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby danieLion » Thu May 26, 2011 1:58 am

Thanks Retrofuturist. Good explanation. I am looking at the sub forum too which is clarifying also.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Goenka technique

Postby tiltbillings » Thu May 26, 2011 2:15 am



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