About not kill any living being

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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby _Daniel_ » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:54 am

if you are seriously ill, and you doctor say to you that you have some virus, and you have to use medicines to kill virus. should you take medicines? or you should only die for no get bad karma ? I think that we misunderstand to Buddha. For example a lion shouldnt hunt to get food? because if he get food killing other animal, he gets bad karma...one thing is the compassion and other thing is to go against your own nature. We can try not kill other living beings, but it always should be in a natural way.
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby Rui Sousa » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:04 am

bodom wrote:what is required for stream entry.


Hi Bodom,

A list of qualities that lead to Stream-entry, assuring future rebirths either as human or as a deva, from the Cula-punnama Sutta MN 110 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.110.than.html):

And how is a person of integrity a person of integrity in the way he acts? There is the case where a person of integrity is one who refrains from taking life, refrains from stealing, refrains from illicit sex. This is how a person of integrity is a person of integrity in the way he acts.
(...)
This person of integrity — thus endowed with qualities of integrity; a person of integrity in his friendship, in the way he wills, the way he gives advice, the way he speaks, the way he acts, the views he holds, & the way he gives a gift — on the break-up of the body, after death, reappears in the destination of people of integrity. And what is the destination of people of integrity? Greatness among devas or among human beings."
With Metta
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby bodom » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:19 am

Hi Rui Sousa

Thanks for the link.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby Rui Sousa » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:53 am

_Daniel_ wrote:if you are seriously ill, and you doctor say to you that you have some virus, and you have to use medicines to kill virus. should you take medicines? or you should only die for no get bad karma ? I think that we misunderstand to Buddha. For example a lion shouldnt hunt to get food? because if he get food killing other animal, he gets bad karma...one thing is the compassion and other thing is to go against your own nature. We can try not kill other living beings, but it always should be in a natural way.


Hi _Daniel_,

Again, the key is intention.

When you get a flu there are millions of virus in your body. The white cells in your body attack the virus and within 3-5 days the virus are all dead. There is nothing we can do about this, that is part of reality. When we eat we ingest many virus, bacteria, protozoa, insects, and so on without seeing them. It sucks, but that is what samsara is. It is part of the burden of being alive.

That has kamma, but not the same as killing with intention. And the kamma for killing because of ignorance is different from the kamma of killing out of greed or ill will. A toddler may kill an animal out of ignorance, repeating the behaviour it has seen in others; one man kills another to steal his gold, or one man kills another because he feels offended by words spoken against him. These three cenarios may have different results, because different mind states are involved in each case.

I don't agree with the 'going against our nature is a bad' thing. If we look at mankind from a zoologic perspective it is in our nature to steal, kill, rape, lie and abuse all kind of drugs. It is in our nature. Being truthful to our nature will make us suffer endlessly, stuck in samsara forever.

The Buddha presented a path out of this, a path that goes against our nature, that leads us to transcend our nature.
With Metta
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby dhamma_spoon » Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:56 am

_Daniel_ wrote:if you are seriously ill, and you doctor say to you that you have some virus, and you have to use medicines to kill virus. should you take medicines? or you should only die for no get bad karma ? I think that we misunderstand to Buddha. For example a lion shouldnt hunt to get food? because if he get food killing other animal, he gets bad karma...one thing is the compassion and other thing is to go against your own nature. We can try not kill other living beings, but it always should be in a natural way.



"Now, when the disciple of the noble ones is consummate in virtue, that is a matter of his conduct. When he guards the doors to his sense faculties... knows moderation in eating... is devoted to wakefulness... is endowed with seven qualities, that is a matter of his conduct. When he obtains at will — without trouble or difficulty — the four jhanas that constitute heightened awareness and a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now, that is a matter of his conduct.

"When he recollects his manifold past lives... in their modes & details, that is a matter of his clear-knowing. When he sees — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — beings passing away & re-appearing... When he enters & remains in the fermentation-free awareness-release & discernment-release, having directly known & realized them for himself right in the here & now, that is a matter of his clear-knowing. :meditate:

"This, Mahanama, is called a disciple of the noble ones who is consummate in clear-knowing, consummate in conduct, consummate in clear-knowing & conduct.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Any person who cannot abstain from killing is not "consumate invirtues".
Being consumate in virtues is not possible for most of householders.
Our ways of living cannot be so pure, so it is not possible to attain nibbana in this life time through being "consummate in clear-knowing & conduct".

Tep
-----
A soup spoon does not know the taste of the soup.
A dhamma spoon does not know the taste of the Dhamma!
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby Goedert » Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:51 pm

Actually friends,

Virus is not a living being or sentient being, because he uses RNA or DNA of a Living Cell by infecting it and then multiply himself and getting a better DNA or RNA from that mixing.

Virus has a latent possibility to be a living cell, he can only live by infecting one, so he is kind of a "seed".

No problem getting medicine to get rid of it.
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby altar » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:01 pm

I used to speculate if a virus was really a being in hell, a being that had been subjected to hell, by his misvirtues. A being that because of its manifestation was subject to torment and could not communicate well and was therefore trapped, therefore in sharp pulsing pain. That is how I imagined a virus.
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Re: About not kill any living being

Postby Jason » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:12 am

_Daniel_ wrote:if you are seriously ill, and you doctor say to you that you have some virus, and you have to use medicines to kill virus. should you take medicines? or you should only die for no get bad karma ? I think that we misunderstand to Buddha. For example a lion shouldnt hunt to get food? because if he get food killing other animal, he gets bad karma...one thing is the compassion and other thing is to go against your own nature. We can try not kill other living beings, but it always should be in a natural way.


The body, by its very nature, is susceptible to aging, illness and death; however, the Buddha didn't teach that people must suffer unnecessarily, especially considering the fact that the Buddha formulated the four noble truths in the same way that ancient Indian physicians formulated medical diagnoses (i.e., disease, its cause, prognosis and treatment).

In addition, viruses are generally not considered to be 'living beings' (pana). As Bhikkhu Bodhi explains, 'pana' means "that which breathes" and denotes "any living being that has breath and consciousness." Not only that, but vaccines don't actively kill viruses anyway, your own immune system does. And since there's no intention (i.e., kamma) involved in the functioning of your immune system (as it's an automatic bodily process), it wouldn't violate the first precept even if viruses were 'living beings.'
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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