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Free-will is it an illusion? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Free-will is it an illusion?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:30 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:36 am


Shonin
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Shonin » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:41 am


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Rui Sousa
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Rui Sousa » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:43 am

In my opinion there is will, but is it not free. It is not free because it is conditioned. But there is will. And actions, words and thoughts affected by that will.

Maybe it is just a question of gradient, because even in Christianity will is not absolutely free, because there are consequences for actions and there is the case of divine intervention guiding believers on their actions.

In my understanding of Buddhism "will" is not as free as in Christianity, which is not completely free there, and freer than in fatalist believes.
With Metta

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tiltbillings
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:46 am


Shonin
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Shonin » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:48 am


Shonin
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Shonin » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:54 am


PeterB
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:12 am

I did of course notice your inverted commas around "person" Shonin. But not everyone reading the message boards as as familiar with that idea as are some others... :anjali:

Anyway does that mean you wont be sending me your dosh ? :smile:

Shonin
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Shonin » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:29 pm


PeterB
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:53 pm

I could lend you a few bob.

Shonin
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Shonin » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:07 pm

Thanks - but we'll get by. :)

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smokey
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby smokey » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:25 pm

"For the early Buddhists, karma was non-linear and complex. Other Indian schools believed that karma operated in a simple straight line, with actions from the past influencing the present, and present actions influencing the future. As a result, they saw little room for free will. Buddhists, however, saw that karma acts in multiple feedback loops, with the present moment being shaped both by past and by present actions; present actions shape not only the future but also the present. Furthermore, present actions need not be determined by past actions. In other words, there is free will, although its range is somewhat dictated by the past. The nature of this freedom is symbolized in an image used by the early Buddhists: flowing water. Sometimes the flow from the past is so strong that little can be done except to stand fast, but there are also times when the flow is gentle enough to be diverted in almost any direction." -Thanissaro Bhikkhu

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... karma.html

PeterB
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:50 pm

Nice...

:anjali:

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beeblebrox
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:07 pm


PeterB
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:14 pm

It was a joke Beeblebrox, An old and running joke.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:17 pm

The fact that there is, objectively, no choice is an inevitable consequence of the principle of causality.

But subjectively we do have a choice because we are not aware of everything that conditions us. Due to ignorance we think we are independent of the external world and of previous events in the internal world, so without knowledge of all the things that condition us we have the illusion of choice. But this illusion is real for us so we do, subjectively, have choice. That's why we must apply effort in the path to liberation.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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beeblebrox
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:25 pm


PeterB
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby PeterB » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:45 pm

I apologise to the Dhamma for any confusion I caused it....

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Dharma Atma
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby Dharma Atma » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:03 pm


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cooran
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Re: Free-will is it an illusion?

Postby cooran » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:20 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


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