Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Theravāda in the 21st century - modern applications of ancient wisdom

Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Reductor » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:26 am

I'm sure many of us are waiting for Bodhi's Anguttara translation to be completed and published. I know that I, personally, am eager to read it. However, there seems to be a dearth of information as to when we might expect the first printing.

Since many here have deep roots in the Theravada community it would come as no surprise to me that some may be able to shed light on the status of Bodhi's monumental undertaking.

So, what is the status? How close?

Of course I would be interested in any information regarding this project, even if it is only hearsay.

Provided that there are any useful posts in this vein, I would respectfully ask the moderators to pin this thread for easy updating, or for reading by those that might miss it the first time around.

:thanks:
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

User avatar
Reductor
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Reductor » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:43 pm

I wrote an email to Wisdom Publications seeking a publication date, and was informed that an official date or schedule has not been set. However it is true that the actual translation is complete and the Bodhi is working over the notes and completing the accompanying parts of the translation (which I suppose would be the various introductions as was the case with the SN).

All in all, it looks good. If I receive more information I will be sure to post it.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

User avatar
Reductor
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby bodom » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:24 pm

:thumbsup:

Man I gotta get my nose to the grindstone with SN. I wanna finish it before AN comes out. Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Reductor » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:39 pm

bodom wrote::thumbsup:

Man I gotta get my nose to the grindstone with SN. I wanna finish it before AN comes out. Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

:anjali:


Oh man, I too have to get at it.

And I will.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

User avatar
Reductor
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby bodom » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:00 pm

thereductor wrote:
bodom wrote::thumbsup:

Man I gotta get my nose to the grindstone with SN. I wanna finish it before AN comes out. Thanks for the update. Keep us posted.

:anjali:


Oh man, I too have to get at it.

And I will.


How far are you? Im on the third book (vagga), Khandha-samyutta 22.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Reductor » Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:13 pm

bodom wrote:How far are you? Im on the third book (vagga), Khandha-samyutta 22.

:anjali:


I'm reading it out of order, leaving book one until last. So far I've read books 5, 2, 3 and am working through 4 (about 60 pages in). I read steadily for a bit, then get distracted, then start again. I figured I'd have it done by now.

Actually, I dread the first book - the meaning of verse always seems impenetrable to me, so I brood over them and feel that I've missed the meaning in some way. :shrug: Am I the only one?
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

User avatar
Reductor
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby bodom » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:33 pm

Interesting. Was it recommended to you to read it this way? I really enjoyed the first book. Its actually one of the most popular in all of the canon and I found Bodhi's notes from the commentaries to be really helpful in understanding the meaning of the verses.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:22 pm

I've been working through the SN in a non-standard order which Bhikkhu Bodhi recommended that essentially followed the four noble truths.

Here is an extract from an email he kindly sent me a couple of years ago in response to a query about how to approach the Samyutta and Anguttara, given that his sequencing of his Majjhima Nikaya talks and his "In the Buddha's Words" collection were so helpful.

I think the sequence he describes here is also discussed in his introductory material.
Bhikkhu Bodhi wrote:I suggest you might take [the Samyutta Nikaya] in what seems to me to be the original order, the most reasonable order, preserved better in the Sarvastivada school (in Chinese translation). In the Pali tradition, it seems, the books of the Samyutta were re-arranged and as a result one loses sight of the underlying groundplan. As I see it from the Chinese Samyukta Agama, this collection attempted, in broad terms, to mirror the pattern of the four noble truths. One should begin with Part III (of the Pali), 22-the Khandha-samyutta, followed by Part IV, 35-the Salayatana-samyutta and 36-Vedana-samyutta. These were to represent the noble truth of suffering. Then take Part II, the Nidana-samyutta. This represents the noble truths of the origin and cessation of suffering. You can also look at Part IV-43 and 44-which again relate to the truth of cessation. Then take Part V, just about all the chapters are important. This is called in Pali the Mahavagga, the large compilation, but in the Chinese Samyukta Agama it was called Margavagga, the compilation on the path; for it represents the fourth truth, the way to the cessation of suffering.

Thereafter you can take any of the minor chapters that catch your interest. Part I, the collection with verses, can be taken last. In the Samyukta Agama it was in fact put at the end, as a kind of supplement to the original Samyutta collection, but for some reason the early elders of the Theravada tradition moved it to the beginning, where it has effectively discouraged many brave souls who were intent on reading the Samyutta from proceeding further.

The Anguttara has no plan of organization apart from the numbers, and the only way to handle it is by reading it straight. But I would suggest beginning with the Threes and Fours and only then coming back to the Ones and Twos. These two early chapters very often merely list terms or permutations on a few ideas, and thus they can be more difficult to get a grip on them the chapters from the Threes forward.


Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10136
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Ben » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:28 pm

Thanks Mike!
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15973
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:39 pm

If I might add something slightly peripheral, what I'm excited about is that with the AN translation I'll have easy access to good, modern, well researched translations of the four major Nikayas. I find it particularly valuable when reading books or posts that refer to the Nikayas to be able to look at good translations of the complete suttas, and the commentary and explanation in the footnotes. And sometimes this turns up interesting little gems. When reading one of Richard Gombrich's books (probably How Buddhism Began) I looked up one of the SN Suttas that he referred to and found a discussion by Bhikkhu Bodhi of the possible flaws in Gombrich's argument...

Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10136
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Reductor » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:32 am

bodom wrote:Interesting. Was it recommended to you to read it this way? I really enjoyed the first book. Its actually one of the most popular in all of the canon and I found Bodhi's notes from the commentaries to be really helpful in understanding the meaning of the verses.

:anjali:


Hmm, what were my reasons :thinking:

There were a few, the first being that I wanted the practical first over the inspirational. Since the mahavagga is about the path, that seemed the best place to start. In addition to that were the comments made by Bodhi in the general intro, about the dauting task of translating the sagathavagga and how he did not start there for fear of being bogged down and giving up. Sounded like a good reason for me to not start my reading there, as I didn't want to get bogged down either.

I'm also suspcisious about verse. I know that when reading a contemporary verse that the meaning is not always clear. I was worried that translated verses would be worse.

Be that as it may, I am quickly approaching that vagga, so I am bracing myself. Perhaps I'll end up really enjoying it.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

User avatar
Reductor
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Vepacitta » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:46 am

The verses are pretty - but they don't "do" anything for me. I read them through once - but I prefer the "meat" of the other texts.

Whatever strikes you and moves you, however, is what is important. For some, the verses may help them to "wake up" (as it were). Everyone has varying sensibilities. For instance I love reading the "satori" poems of the Zen monks but it never helped me to realise anything. The "brain busting" analyses that you find in some of the suttas somehow turns on a lightbulb for me, oops, excuse me, that should be "me".

(There should be a Spock smiley - I'm just sayin')

Kindness, metta and all that,

V.

NB - As I'm sure you all are aware (but for those who may not) there is an anthology of the Anguttura Nikaya available - Nyanaponika Thera & Bhikkhu Bodhi.
I'm your friendly, neighbourhood Asura
User avatar
Vepacitta
 
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:58 pm
Location: Somewhere on the slopes of Mt. Meru

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:24 am

Vepacitta wrote:NB - As I'm sure you all are aware (but for those who may not) there is an anthology of the Anguttura Nikaya available - Nyanaponika Thera & Bhikkhu Bodhi.

Much of this is online here: http://bps.lk/onlinelibrary_wheels.asp#trans
And here: http://books.google.com/books?id=N7zCNa ... hi&f=false

Of course, I'm looking forward to the complete translation in hardcopy. The PTS translation is rather old, not to mention expensive.
http://www.palitext.com/palitext/tran.htm

Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 10136
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby cooran » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:46 am

Hello all,

A friend of mine who is a Pali scholar and who is assisting BB - has said:

Barring no major interruptions, Ven. Bodhi expects to be fully finished on the AN translation (notes and all) by early next year. Then it just depends on how long Wisdom take to review it, edit it, and bring it out in print. We might estimate some time in the latter part of 2011.

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
User avatar
cooran
 
Posts: 7388
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Reductor » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:53 am

cooran wrote:Hello all,

A friend of mine who is a Pali scholar and who is assisting BB - has said:

Barring no major interruptions, Ven. Bodhi expects to be fully finished on the AN translation (notes and all) by early next year. Then it just depends on how long Wisdom take to review it, edit it, and bring it out in print. We might estimate some time in the latter part of 2011.

with metta
Chris


Thank you for the update Cooran.

:cry: That's further off than I had hoped.

Still, progress is progress, I say!

:thanks:
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

User avatar
Reductor
 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby turquoiseJack » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:35 pm

Great thread! :twothumbsup:
It is difficult to find info about Bhikkhu Bodhis latest work. Hopefully I'll have finished SN by the time its published.
I bought the first three Nikayas second hand a few months ago so I got them at a very good price - I'm wondering now how much this Anguttara Nikaya will cost new, can any body give me a round about figure?
User avatar
turquoiseJack
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:37 am

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby bodom » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:35 pm

turquoiseJack wrote:I'm wondering now how much this Anguttara Nikaya will cost new, can any body give me a round about figure?


It should be around the same size as the Samyutta, so I would guess around the same price range as well, brand new, im guessing $90-$100 from Wisdom Pubs.

Im wondering what color the dust jacket will be? Im thinking yellow...

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby turquoiseJack » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:13 pm

I thought they cost much more then that when they were new! Thats very good, I'd be willing to pay alot more then $90-$100 considering whats in it. Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

Yellow would be nice but what colour would the writting on it be? :D I think purple.
User avatar
turquoiseJack
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:37 am

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:43 am

cooran wrote:Hello all,

A friend of mine who is a Pali scholar and who is assisting BB - has said:

Barring no major interruptions, Ven. Bodhi expects to be fully finished on the AN translation (notes and all) by early next year. Then it just depends on how long Wisdom take to review it, edit it, and bring it out in print. We might estimate some time in the latter part of 2011.

with metta
Chris


Thanks, Chris. In a couple of emails with Bhante himself early last year, he said that it was in the editors hands, and would be out around mid 2010. So ... good things come to those who wait, huh?

PS: I imagine that the whole translation will be simply HUGE!
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Paññāsikhara
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am

Re: Bodhi watch... or waiting for the Anguttara

Postby Ben » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:00 am

Hi Bhante,

Paññāsikhara wrote:
cooran wrote:Hello all,

A friend of mine who is a Pali scholar and who is assisting BB - has said:

Barring no major interruptions, Ven. Bodhi expects to be fully finished on the AN translation (notes and all) by early next year. Then it just depends on how long Wisdom take to review it, edit it, and bring it out in print. We might estimate some time in the latter part of 2011.

with metta
Chris


Thanks, Chris. In a couple of emails with Bhante himself early last year, he said that it was in the editors hands, and would be out around mid 2010. So ... good things come to those who wait, huh?

PS: I imagine that the whole translation will be simply HUGE!


Having had some experience in book publishing, there are always lags and delays.
And yes, I think it will be huge.
kind regards

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com
User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
 
Posts: 15973
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: Land of the sleeping gods

Next

Return to Theravāda for the modern world

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests