It occurred to me a few weeks ago reading a thread Retro started, that I probably have a compassion problem. Then again tonight, I was confronted with a situation that has made clear to me that I have more compassion for small animals than adult human strangers. Children? I'm there, how can I help. Small animals? What's needed. But adult human-type people I don't know? Forget about it. Everybody gets what they deserve. As you sow, so shall ye reap, etc. If something bad happened to them, they probably did something (stupid or otherwise) to deserve it.
More and more, I'm thinking this is going to be perhaps the most challenging area for my practice. On the other hand, if I feel I know you, even a little, I'm likely to be on your side. We'll work it out, find an answer, etc. There are people I know that I've written off for a variety of reasons, but generally, if I get to know you, there's some compassion there if needed. Is this the problem I think it is or am I making a mountain out of a mole-hill?
AdvaitaJ
Levels of Compassion?
Levels of Compassion?
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains. Li Bai
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains. Li Bai
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Friend,
I take karuna to be linked with prajna. Each one supports the other. I would like people to extend compassion towards me when mistakes I make show I am influenced by the three poisons and so would extend the same to others. On a very personal note I have always had distaste for social conformity. I live in a small town which is quite rigid in its reaction to social independence. So that is my challange. Hope this may help.
John
I take karuna to be linked with prajna. Each one supports the other. I would like people to extend compassion towards me when mistakes I make show I am influenced by the three poisons and so would extend the same to others. On a very personal note I have always had distaste for social conformity. I live in a small town which is quite rigid in its reaction to social independence. So that is my challange. Hope this may help.
John
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Dear AdvaitaJ -- Would you say a little about what you -- you personally -- think compassion is?
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Hi AdvaitaJ
Compassion, like wisdom, needs to be cultivated!
Do you practice Metta Bhavana on a daily basis? If not, I recommend making it part of your practice. One method I heard about from a friend was an instruction from a monk who said that when you start practicing Metta Bhavana, as your object, start to focus on a small cuddly furry animal like a puppy or a kitten. Then, follow the formula of your choice. For a lot of people it is to focus on oneself then those closest and dearest and thn moving outwards to those who we don't know but are indifferent and those we know but have aversion towards.
When you practce Metta Bhavana, be sure to try and generate all of the four qualities of metta (loving kindness), karuna (compassion), upekka (equanimity) and mudita (sympathetic joy).
All the best with your practice AdvaitaJ, please let us know how you go.
Metta
Ben
Compassion, like wisdom, needs to be cultivated!
Do you practice Metta Bhavana on a daily basis? If not, I recommend making it part of your practice. One method I heard about from a friend was an instruction from a monk who said that when you start practicing Metta Bhavana, as your object, start to focus on a small cuddly furry animal like a puppy or a kitten. Then, follow the formula of your choice. For a lot of people it is to focus on oneself then those closest and dearest and thn moving outwards to those who we don't know but are indifferent and those we know but have aversion towards.
When you practce Metta Bhavana, be sure to try and generate all of the four qualities of metta (loving kindness), karuna (compassion), upekka (equanimity) and mudita (sympathetic joy).
All the best with your practice AdvaitaJ, please let us know how you go.
Metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27858
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
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- Contact:
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Greetings,
I wholeheartedly concur with Ben's recommendation.
Another thing I have found useful is to contemplate that my happiness is no more important than anyone else's happiness... it's merely self-interest that makes it seem so. Understanding this it's easier to have empathy for others and to realise that everyone prefers happiness to sadness, anger or frustration.
Metta,
Retro.
I wholeheartedly concur with Ben's recommendation.
Another thing I have found useful is to contemplate that my happiness is no more important than anyone else's happiness... it's merely self-interest that makes it seem so. Understanding this it's easier to have empathy for others and to realise that everyone prefers happiness to sadness, anger or frustration.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Hi, Advaita,AdvaitaJ wrote:It occurred to me a few weeks ago reading a thread Retro started, that I probably have a compassion problem. Then again tonight, I was confronted with a situation that has made clear to me that I have more compassion for small animals than adult human strangers. Children? I'm there, how can I help. Small animals? What's needed. But adult human-type people I don't know? Forget about it. Everybody gets what they deserve. As you sow, so shall ye reap, etc. If something bad happened to them, they probably did something (stupid or otherwise) to deserve it.
More and more, I'm thinking this is going to be perhaps the most challenging area for my practice. On the other hand, if I feel I know you, even a little, I'm likely to be on your side. We'll work it out, find an answer, etc. There are people I know that I've written off for a variety of reasons, but generally, if I get to know you, there's some compassion there if needed. Is this the problem I think it is or am I making a mountain out of a mole-hill?
AdvaitaJ
I think most of us feel different levels of compassion.
Just look at how some pamper their pet and buy ground beef and caviar for them.
Compassion for the cattle or the fish is not really very present in the awareness.
I'm not a bit better.
I would never eat a cat, unless I was starving.
It 's a bit different with chicken and fish.
On the other hand I rescue blackbirds out of the chimney, and am happy about that.
Sometimes, when somebody gets a tough lesson in life, I think about the learning that will arise from this, on the other hand, I am sorry it has to be through pain as the teacher, and not through insight.
Even when somebody messes with me, I think, in my lucid moments: This was your mother before.
I just don't always have lucid moments.
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Genkaku,genkaku wrote:Dear AdvaitaJ -- Would you say a little about what you -- you personally -- think compassion is?
That's tough. I think my compassion gets really confused with my ego. I honestly don't know how much of my "caring" for helpless creatures comes from genuine compassion and how much comes from an ego-based desire to be "the hero". And, let's not forget the near-enemy, pity. That's an easy trap for me as well. In many ways, I suspect I only know this is an issue at all because of my practice over the last months, so this is progress. (Ya gotta know it's broke...) To answer your question, my definition of compassion is feeling a genuine caring sensation for someone experiencing difficulty.
Ben, Retro,
Thanks guys, logged and noted. I have only just incorporated a small bit of Metta into my daily routine, but as with all elements of my practice, I do my very best to make it a quality effort. I really do try to connect with the feeling. Too soon to tell if there's any progress.
Annabel,
This is very close to my default mode except that I don't usually go on to the "sorry about the pain" part unless I know the person.Sometimes, when somebody gets a tough lesson in life, I think about the learning that will arise from this, on the other hand, I am sorry it has to be through pain as the teacher, and not through insight.
On a lighter note, the good news now is that, if somebody messes with me, I'm more and more inclined to mindfulness.
Thanks again to all.
AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains. Li Bai
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains. Li Bai
Re: Levels of Compassion?
You're welcome, Advaita.
A thought that arose upon reading your reply to me was:
Is a slight touch of anger at humans the soil from which your sentiments arise ?
Like, let's say, you felt wronged, somehow, by some humans, whilst small animals never hurt you but made you happy?
Then I think your emotions are very understandable.
Of course I'm just speculating and you may not wish to share privacy.
Then just ignore this.....
Annabel
A thought that arose upon reading your reply to me was:
Is a slight touch of anger at humans the soil from which your sentiments arise ?
Like, let's say, you felt wronged, somehow, by some humans, whilst small animals never hurt you but made you happy?
Then I think your emotions are very understandable.
Of course I'm just speculating and you may not wish to share privacy.
Then just ignore this.....
Annabel
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Hi AdvaitaJ -- Nice stuff. Thanks. And I agree -- ya gotta know it's broke before you can fix it. So feeling a 'genuine caring sensation for someone experiencing difficulty' is a hell of a lot better than a calloused indifference.That's tough. I think my compassion gets really confused with my ego. I honestly don't know how much of my "caring" for helpless creatures comes from genuine compassion and how much comes from an ego-based desire to be "the hero". And, let's not forget the near-enemy, pity. That's an easy trap for me as well. In many ways, I suspect I only know this is an issue at all because of my practice over the last months, so this is progress. (Ya gotta know it's broke...) To answer your question, my definition of compassion is feeling a genuine caring sensation for someone experiencing difficulty.
But sometime you may notice this: You are walking down a crowded sidewalk and two or three feet in front of you an elderly person stumbles and falls. And even before you rouse up anything like a "genuine caring sensation," you move to where the person has fallen and bend down to lend a hand. It's all as natural as scratching a mosquito bite. No 'goodness' necessary. Later, you might tell a friend about the incident and that friend might congratulate your 'compassion.'
But was it 'compassion' in the moment? Wouldn't 'compassion' just get in the way of your natural compassion? Do feelings really enter here?
No criticism from here. Just asking if it might be true in your life or mine.
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Small animals make it easy. They don't put any feelings in the way, or expect any in return.genkaku wrote: But was it 'compassion' in the moment? Wouldn't 'compassion' just get in the way of your natural compassion? Do feelings really enter here?
I got "buzzed" by a flying squirrel last night, on the back deck. I'm hoping it was as good for him as it was for me.
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Did you both kick back with a cigarette?termite wrote:Small animals make it easy. They don't put any feelings in the way, or expect any in return.genkaku wrote: But was it 'compassion' in the moment? Wouldn't 'compassion' just get in the way of your natural compassion? Do feelings really enter here?
I got "buzzed" by a flying squirrel last night, on the back deck. I'm hoping it was as good for him as it was for me.
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Hi Genkaku, AdvaitaJgenkaku wrote:Do feelings really enter here?
Good point. My point of view is that we often confuse the psycho-somatic experience of 'feelings'/'sensations' with a particular mental quality such as 'compassion' or 'loving kindness'. We may not need to feel compassionate to be compassionate.
Metta
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Nicholas Weeks
- Posts: 4210
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:26 pm
- Location: USA West Coast
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Maybe this point of view would help? All creatures, in some lifetime, have been close to us.
Samyutta Nikaya XV.14-19
Mata Sutta Mother
Samyutta Nikaya XV.14-19
Mata Sutta Mother
At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said: "From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find...A being who has not been your father...your brother...your sister...your son...your daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find.
"Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
Re: Levels of Compassion?
I can't speak for the squirrel. I went back in the house and had a cup of tea.genkaku wrote: Did you both kick back with a cigarette?
Re: Levels of Compassion?
Genkaku,genkaku wrote:But sometime you may notice this: You are walking down a crowded sidewalk and two or three feet in front of you an elderly person stumbles and falls. And even before you rouse up anything like a "genuine caring sensation," you move to where the person has fallen and bend down to lend a hand.
Very thought-provoking, thanks! But here's the rub, if you substitute "disheveled old guy" for "elderly person", my auto-pilot response is probably going to be the guy never took care of himself or is a drunk. If you substitute "elderly neatly dressed lady" for "elderly person", I was probably already looking out for her and making sure no bad guys were nearby. Clearly, the perceptions are fully engaged here and potentially obscuring the truth.
Ben,
Don't go giving me hope, now...We may not need to feel compassionate to be compassionate.
Annabel,
That's probably a big factor. Parental alcoholism was the major factor in my factor in my childhood and, as a consequence, trusting an adult is very difficult if not downright impossible for me.Like, let's say, you felt wronged, somehow, by some humans, whilst small animals never hurt you but made you happy?
The good news is that there is every reason to believe that continuing to work on constant mindfulness will continue leading to improvements.
Thanks all!
AdavaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains. Li Bai
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains. Li Bai