Layman Arahant

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun May 23, 2010 5:00 pm

Anicca wrote:
mind is the Buddha
A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.

Laymen are Buddhas
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.

Unless they see their nature
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!

As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice. :tongue:

Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)



Brilliant... :clap:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
Sanghamitta
 
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby bodom » Sun May 23, 2010 5:41 pm

Anicca wrote:
mind is the Buddha
A swing and a miss - strike one. No balls - one strike.

Laymen are Buddhas
Foul tip off the end of the bat - strike two. No balls - two strikes.

Unless they see their nature
Ump calls strike three - he's outta there!

As a practicing Theravadin this line of thinking is very inspirational to me and my practice. :tongue:

Metta - (no one loves you more than i do bodom!)


Oh so ya wanna play hard ball do ya? :smile:

Well I guess I will have to return the book and never read Bodhidharma again. Thanks alot Anicca! :tongue:

I knew I would probably take some slack for that but hey what the heck.

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Sun May 23, 2010 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Zom » Sun May 23, 2010 6:07 pm

This sutta is interesting on this topic. Here Buddha says that there are numerous bhukkhu arahants, numerous bhikkhuni arahants, and then - numerous layman anagamis (and so on). No mention about layman arahants.. :reading:

http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ma ... tta-e1.htm
User avatar
Zom
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby PeterB » Mon May 24, 2010 2:03 pm

So Bodom, this Red Pine person, is he by any chance related to Pinicchio ?
PeterB
 
Posts: 3903
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby bodom » Mon May 24, 2010 2:38 pm

PeterB wrote:So Bodom, this Red Pine person, is he by any chance related to Pinicchio ?


Haha very funny Peter lol. His real name is Bill Porter. Red Pine is his pen name. He is actually an acclaimed translator and interpreter of Chinesese Buddhist texts.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4604
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby PeterB » Mon May 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Has he formed a splinter group ? :smile:
PeterB
 
Posts: 3903
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby fabianfred » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:15 am

My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????
fabianfred
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Fang, Chiangmai

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby salmon » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:35 am

Can it be possible that one becomes a bhikkhu in the mind (ie. lives like a bhikkhu) and not that one has to go through the ordination ceremony? I mean...isn't the physical ceremony itself a FORM?
~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~
User avatar
salmon
 
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:55 am

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Anicca » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:10 am

fabianfred wrote:My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????

If in your mind you see her as an Arahant - in your mind, see her wearing the robes! :tongue:
Anicca
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:11 am
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby mud » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:08 am

If a layperson were to become an arahant, then how would they live their daily life? They would have no desire to do anything. I imagine all they would do is teach dhamma, why would they not ordain? It seems like it would be the most effective use of the rest of their time.
mud
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:22 am

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Zom » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:57 am

User avatar
Zom
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:59 am

mud wrote:If a layperson were to become an arahant, then how would they live their daily life? They would have no desire to do anything. I imagine all they would do is teach dhamma, why would they not ordain? It seems like it would be the most effective use of the rest of their time.
If they had no desire to do anything, then why would they have a desire to ordain or to teach?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19385
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby fabianfred » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:56 am

thereductor wrote:
Yodsak wrote:
David, my reply was aimed at Bodom's assertion that there are no arahants without the Buddhasasana.

And is the Pali canon (like the bible and the koran) unimpeachable? :twothumbsup:
Don't surrender your own moral autority please.


The Pali canon is likely the only text to which you could surrender your moral authority and still be an exemplar person. But that's not what people are advocating, I don't think. But certain truths do have to be understood in order for Arahantship to be attained, and those truths are currently embodied in the canon. Not all parts of the canon are as essential as the other parts, but the essential truths are in there.

The Buddha was asked if other teachers teaching might enable one to reach nirvana....and he replied, yes....if those teachings contained the Noble Eightfold path and Four Noble truths.
I suspect no others do.....
fabianfred
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Fang, Chiangmai

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:58 am

fabianfred wrote:My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????

So she has absolutely no defilements?

Kevoin
Virgo
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:05 am

Virgo wrote:
fabianfred wrote:My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????

So she has absolutely no defilements?

Kevoin
And we are, Kevoin, to judge upon what basis?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19385
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:17 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:
fabianfred wrote:My present teacher, a Thai lady, mother and housewife, I and many followers consider to be arahant.
Since she is female the chance to ordain is not an option....what then ????

So she has absolutely no defilements?

Kevoin
And we are, Kevoin, to judge upon what basis?

For one, an Arahant can never experience a moment of restlessness. Nor will they ever get upset about anything-- stepping in a puddle of mud, getting hit, etc.

Those are some things to look out for.

A sotapanna on the other hand Tilt... well, you know.

Take care,
Kevin
Virgo
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:40 pm

Virgo wrote:For one, an Arahant can never experience a moment of restlessness. Nor will they ever get upset about anything-- stepping in a puddle of mud, getting hit, etc.

Those are some things to look out for.

A sotapanna on the other hand Tilt... well, you know.
Ah, yes, the good old step in a puddle test for the supposed arahant. And then, of course, there is the if-you-say-you-are-you-aren't test for the sotapanna.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19385
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby lojong1 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:50 am

Zom wrote:How to test if someone is arahant:
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ma ... hana-e.htm

"Bhikkhus, [if the bhikkhu who declares perfection answers thus,] his words should be accepted as good words and he should be told. ‘Friend, it is great gain, that we meet co-associates like you.’"
HILARIOUS
"You're an Arahant, eh? Pleased to meet you. Now if you'll excuse me, there are these roots of trees..."
lojong1
 
Posts: 580
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Virgo » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:23 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:For one, an Arahant can never experience a moment of restlessness. Nor will they ever get upset about anything-- stepping in a puddle of mud, getting hit, etc.

Those are some things to look out for.

A sotapanna on the other hand Tilt... well, you know.
And then, of course, there is the if-you-say-you-are-you-aren't test for the sotapanna.

Hi Tilt,

If that were derived from the texts there wouldn't be a problem with it. The problem is, however, that many sotapannas announced their attainments to others in the texts.

Have a nice day,

Kevin
Virgo
 
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: Layman Arahant

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:47 pm

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:For one, an Arahant can never experience a moment of restlessness. Nor will they ever get upset about anything-- stepping in a puddle of mud, getting hit, etc.

Those are some things to look out for.

A sotapanna on the other hand Tilt... well, you know.
And then, of course, there is the if-you-say-you-are-you-aren't test for the sotapanna.

Hi Tilt,

If that were derived from the texts there wouldn't be a problem with it. The problem is, however, that many sotapannas announced their attainments to others in the texts.
There is a massive difference between the texts, where there is the Buddha who can correct such a claim, if needs be, and someone, on an internet forum, declaring of himself "I am a sotapanna" or whatever level of ariya the individual might imagine of himself. Does it need to be spelled out?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 19385
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

PreviousNext

Return to General Theravāda discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 9 guests